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EU keeps on delivering today!

echelon 2y ago
Defaults and bundling are inherently unfair. Chrome shouldn't be bundled with Android. Google search shouldn't be the default. Google Wallet / Google Pay shouldn't be the default. Same for Apple and Microsoft. Apple Cash shouldn't be the default in Messages, ... the list goes on and on. Platform providers can easily attack businesses outside of their core business by setting defaults. They use these synergies to wield unfair power over hundreds of markets. Don't even get me started on how you now have to pay to protect your brand name in search across these platforms. The fact that you might appear fourth in search for your own brand name in the App Store or on Google is absurd.
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  The browser is a tricky one. It is the chicken that lays the rest of the eggs. I’m not going to tell my mom how to curl a copy of Brave onto her machine because no browser was provided.
  - Nathanba 2y ago
    yes, would be unfair towards all the other http tools that arent curl if you bundle it
    - gambiting 2y ago
      No one is getting a competitive advantage by bundling curl, which is the entire point of this argument.
      - Vuska 2y ago
        Except for curl, which now has more users familar with it than say wget or aria2.
      - abduhl 2y ago
        That's exactly what Microsoft would say about Teams though, so it's probably better that we err on the side of caution and ban curl bundling. At least until curl can prove that it's not anti-competitive.
      - kogir 2y ago
        wget begs to differ. Kidding aside, where exactly does it end? How do you consider when you’ve hit “too much” and how many pieces must be split out when you do? Should every product in the Office suite be offered only individually?
        crazygringo 2y ago
        Indeed, a lot of people don't remember but back when spell checking was a new thing, there was genuine concern over whether bundling it with word processors was anticompetitive. Or if Word and WordPerfect should be sold without spell checkers, and they'd need to interoperate with third party ones.
        Teever 2y ago
        What if we just make them bundle their competitors products if they want to buy dle their own? That means that Firefox nextcloud and bitwarden are installed by default on windows/macs
        ThalesX 2y ago
        What about my startup nextercloud? Why am I being discriminated against!?
        Teever 2y ago
        Be sure the goal isn't to get every alternative there, just enough to stop the unfair advantage of bundling and to make a healthier market.
        ThalesX 2y ago
        Well, I feel like Nextercould™ is the key to a healthier market and stopping the unfair bundling of Nextcloud with major OS releases.
        Teever 2y ago
  - oaiey 2y ago
    Browsers are particularly tricky because they are also a software development platform which needs to be reliable as the OS is. In some browsers like ChromeOS they are even the primary one.
  - petesergeant 2y ago
    > The browser is a tricky one Maybe, but they already solved that once already https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu
  - josefx 2y ago
    Chrome on Android is a completely different issue. It isn't that Android comes with Chrome or any other browser by default. It is that Googles PlayStore licensing outright allows Google to retroactively brick any phone by a manufacturer that fails to make the official Google Chrome binary the default browser on all of its Android phones. It is the reason Amazon had a hard time getting its Kindle productline of the ground since any manufacturer operating in the west was already bound by this shitshow of a license.
    - Krssst 2y ago
      On another hand, Android respects the user choice of browser. I have not seen it forcefully start Chrome on me once I set Firefox as default. I cannot say the same for Windows and Edge. Teams open links by default in Edge regardless of OS settings as far as I know (but it can be adjusted in Teams settings). Searching from the start menu also opens Edge and Bing rather than my choice of browser and search engine.
- Mashimo 2y ago
  > Google search shouldn't be the default. At least for me, chrome was asking me last week what search engine I want to use. Made me switch to duckduckgo.
  - arlcode 2y ago
    yeah me to. The DSA and the DMA doing what they are designed to do (in Europe) It's unfortunate that the regulators and legislators will have to fight over every one of those services individually for a while until mega corps get tired of their games and retreat to making train- instead of boat loads of money.
outside1234 2y ago
This isn't going to stop anything. It is just going to result in bribes to the countries and some small to Microsoft fine.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Defaults and bundling are inherently unfair. Chrome shouldn't be bundled with Android. Google search shouldn't be the default. Google Wallet / Google Pay shouldn't be the default. Same for Apple and Microsoft. Apple Cash shouldn't be the default in Messages, ... the list goes on and on. Platform providers can easily attack businesses outside of their core business by setting defaults. They use these synergies to wield unfair power over hundreds of markets. Don't even get me started on how you now have to pay to protect your brand name in search across these platforms. The fact that you might appear fourth in search for your own brand name in the App Store or on Google is absurd.

dghlsakjg 2y ago
The browser is a tricky one. It is the chicken that lays the rest of the eggs. I’m not going to tell my mom how to curl a copy of Brave onto her machine because no browser was provided.
- Nathanba 2y ago
  yes, would be unfair towards all the other http tools that arent curl if you bundle it
  - gambiting 2y ago
    No one is getting a competitive advantage by bundling curl, which is the entire point of this argument.
    - Vuska 2y ago
      Except for curl, which now has more users familar with it than say wget or aria2.
    - abduhl 2y ago
      That's exactly what Microsoft would say about Teams though, so it's probably better that we err on the side of caution and ban curl bundling. At least until curl can prove that it's not anti-competitive.
    - kogir 2y ago
      wget begs to differ. Kidding aside, where exactly does it end? How do you consider when you’ve hit “too much” and how many pieces must be split out when you do? Should every product in the Office suite be offered only individually?
      - crazygringo 2y ago
        Indeed, a lot of people don't remember but back when spell checking was a new thing, there was genuine concern over whether bundling it with word processors was anticompetitive. Or if Word and WordPerfect should be sold without spell checkers, and they'd need to interoperate with third party ones.
      - Teever 2y ago
        What if we just make them bundle their competitors products if they want to buy dle their own? That means that Firefox nextcloud and bitwarden are installed by default on windows/macs
        ThalesX 2y ago
        What about my startup nextercloud? Why am I being discriminated against!?
        Teever 2y ago
        Be sure the goal isn't to get every alternative there, just enough to stop the unfair advantage of bundling and to make a healthier market.
        ThalesX 2y ago
        Well, I feel like Nextercould™ is the key to a healthier market and stopping the unfair bundling of Nextcloud with major OS releases.
        Teever 2y ago
- oaiey 2y ago
  Browsers are particularly tricky because they are also a software development platform which needs to be reliable as the OS is. In some browsers like ChromeOS they are even the primary one.
- petesergeant 2y ago
  > The browser is a tricky one Maybe, but they already solved that once already https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu
- josefx 2y ago
  Chrome on Android is a completely different issue. It isn't that Android comes with Chrome or any other browser by default. It is that Googles PlayStore licensing outright allows Google to retroactively brick any phone by a manufacturer that fails to make the official Google Chrome binary the default browser on all of its Android phones. It is the reason Amazon had a hard time getting its Kindle productline of the ground since any manufacturer operating in the west was already bound by this shitshow of a license.
  - Krssst 2y ago
    On another hand, Android respects the user choice of browser. I have not seen it forcefully start Chrome on me once I set Firefox as default. I cannot say the same for Windows and Edge. Teams open links by default in Edge regardless of OS settings as far as I know (but it can be adjusted in Teams settings). Searching from the start menu also opens Edge and Bing rather than my choice of browser and search engine.
Mashimo 2y ago
> Google search shouldn't be the default. At least for me, chrome was asking me last week what search engine I want to use. Made me switch to duckduckgo.
- arlcode 2y ago
  yeah me to. The DSA and the DMA doing what they are designed to do (in Europe) It's unfortunate that the regulators and legislators will have to fight over every one of those services individually for a while until mega corps get tired of their games and retreat to making train- instead of boat loads of money.

outside1234 2y ago

This isn't going to stop anything. It is just going to result in bribes to the countries and some small to Microsoft fine.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]