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I've been a Windows user since 3.1. I'm a professional Microsoft stack developer (.NET, SQL Server, Power Platform, M365). I first tried Linux in the late 90s,

I've been a Windows user since 3.1. I'm a professional Microsoft stack developer (.NET, SQL Server, Power Platform, M365). I first tried Linux in the late 90s, never stuck with me. But 2 weeks ago I installed Linux on my home setup to run 24/7. There's some seriously dumb issues with it: Ubuntu snaps are terrible with no local fonts in FF and other snap-based software has surprising bugs and crashes you don't realise are the fault of snaps until you waste hours researching it, everybody pushes AppImages but you can't get launcher shortcuts without doing it all manually in a friggin .desktop file* (you could do this 30 years ago in Win3.1 without having to search around for an icon!!!), you can't consistently pin stuff to a taskbar, etc. But I think I'll be sticking with it all the same. Microsoft could ban my Microsoft account and then what, I can't use my PC anymore?! * Yes I know there's some software you can download to do it but seriously it's not been updated for ages and this should be core OS GUI functionality. I switched to Debian and KDE which at least has more flexibility.

pmlnr 2y ago
> Ubuntu There's your problem ;) Mint has been much more user friendly for a long time. I've been on Manjaro for some time now, and I'm quite happy with it.
- Aerbil313 2y ago
  Agreed, Mint is the better Ubuntu. And if you squint hard enough, you can find people like me who'll claim NixOS is more beginner-friendly than any other distro.
  - dartos 2y ago
    The amount of background Linux know how you need for nixos is insane. Basically nothing you’ll want to do is googleable. I’d recommend arch to a newbie before nix. Once you get a handle on things, nix is pretty nice.
  - fransje26 2y ago
    At that level, it's not a squint anymore. It's full strabismus..
ernst_klim 2y ago
> I can't use my PC anymore It's not your computer anymore, it's this computer.
xemdetia 2y ago
I recommend Debian + Cinnamon right now over KDE for people who want that Windows + searchable start menu now get out of my way. Right now for me KDE is a bit much.
- mergy 2y ago
  This is where I am landing as well after a long time with XFCE on Debian. You have to take some time to set panels and applets up and get some Spice applets and you are all set.
  - xemdetia 2y ago
    Yeah, I was a LXDE user for the longest time but with hidpi displays it started falling apart. Cinnamon ended up being the right amount of utility as a baseline and it has felt like a stable place to be since I swapped.
- tracker1 2y ago
  I've been a pretty big fan of Pop myself. Looking forward to Cosmos going into release.
logicprog 2y ago
It's unfortunate, and I mean this genuinely here, in a sympathetic way, that you felt afoul of the common error that people who checked in with Linux 6 or more years ago make: assuming that Ubuntu is still the best and easiest to use distribution. Unfortunately, it really isn't anymore — the way they are pushing snaps (including forcing you to install snaps instead of regular packages even if you use the regular package manager) is really unfortunate because of how fucked snaps are to use, not to mention the fact that snaps are hardcoded to only be able to install from the proprietary closed source snap repository Canonical runs, and that store is full of crypto scams. Plus, in general, desktop PC Ubuntu has been getting buggier and more unreliable over time as Canonical switches their focus to the server. Honestly, if there was one misconception about Linux that I could erase with a snap of my fingers from all potential users minds, it would be that they should start with Ubuntu. IMO Debian is a pretty good choice if you have hardware that's about 2 to 4 years old or more and don't really care about getting the latest driver updates or advances in the Linux ecosystem, so you should have a better experience there, but if it starts to frustrate you that it takes years for huge fixes and advancements to make their way to you, I really enjoy Fedora. :-) Also, you mentioned two of the major alternative application packaging formats, snap and appimage, but have you heard of our Lord and savior Flatpak? :p It has all of the benefits of snaps (namely sandboxing, consistent environments and packaging dependencies along with applications, updates directly from upstream, distribution agnostic packaging, and automatic integration with your desktop environment) but none of the downsides (namely far better desktop environment integration thanks to portals and much much faster startup times and no perf impact during runtime unlike snaps). A lot of people talk down about them but I think that's mostly FUD.
- sevensor 2y ago
  Strongly agree about Debian. I'm a longtime Arch user, but it causes headaches when you let a machine get too far out of date, and I wanted something I could put on the stack of old laptops in my closet. One by one, I'm migrating those to Debian Stable. It doesn't matter that everything is a major version behind; these laptops are now single-purpose machines that I rarely boot. They will always be behind regardless, and they might as well be behind on Debian Stable. It works flawlessly, and it's quite simple to set up at this point. (Also, having ancient single-purpose laptops is fantastic. I have one for recreational programming, and that's all I use it for. I have another for curating my music collection, and one for games. They don't need to be fast, or up to date, or power efficient, because I don't use them all the time. But when I do use them, it's nice to have them set up just so for the thing I want to use them for.)
jacobwilliamroy 2y ago
>this should be core OS GUI functionality Be careful. This is how distros start.
- kspacewalk2 2y ago
  https://xkcd.com/2116/ https://xkcd.com/2116/
jjice 2y ago
> There's some seriously dumb issues with it: Ubuntu snaps are terrible... It's so upsetting that Ubuntu went so hard in on Snaps. I just end up with issues caused by their sandboxing with hardware and config access and you end up having to fight to find a normal .deb install for FF instead of that damn default Snap. I hope the journey isn't too rough for you though - best of luck!
- G3rn0ti 2y ago
  I understand your frustration with snaps, but I consider it a very good distribution channel for commercial applications on Linux systems. Something that Appimage or Flatpak could not easily provide without a commercial entity backing it like Canonical.
  - vetinari 2y ago
    Snap is a dead-end; but as usual, it takes some time until Canonical realizes that. If you want to easily distribute commercial applications, use flatpak. You could even have your own flatpak repo for your own products, if you wanted (it is really just static http).
    - tracker1 2y ago
      Snap apparently has a few advantages, like supporting non-gui apps (for servers) which isn't a good fit for AppImage or Flatpak. That said, I generally stick to Docker for server apps. I agree that the flatpak/appimage/snap options for apps, and in particular commercial apps is a decent idea. I think integration and permissions should probably move to something similar to the UX for phone apps though... it feels weird having to try to configure permissions that should be in the box.
- burning_hamster 2y ago
  I am also not a fan of the pivot to Snap. However, it is worth mentioning, that it has only been two years (I think, at least 22.04 LTS was the first release I had to wrestle with them on my machine), and the experience has become a lot better during this time.
necrotic_comp 2y ago
Agreed with the sibling posts. Ubuntu isn't a great experience - it feels seamless until it breaks, and then it's just a world of pain. Debian/Mint/etc. are all good distros, but if you're willing to step up the learning curve just a bit, I'd definitely suggest Gentoo. I've been using it as my daily driver for several years now and it's made me feel like I'm actually in control of my machine (compiling all your code with debug flags so you can attach gdb when it's behaving weird so you can write a patch?! And then submit it to get sucked into upstream!? Yes please!). There's definitely a little work up front, but it's without a doubt the best experience I've had with Linux and I'd recommend it if you're up for it.
ragnese 2y ago
Yeah, snaps are really shitty. And in general, desktop Linux is just as buggy and maybe even more half-baked than it was when I started using it in 2007. But, I own my machines. I don't need to ask permission from a company to be able to log in to my machine. I can install or uninstall whatever the hell I want.
AiAi 2y ago
There is AppImageLauncher [0] that can make it easier to get launcher shortcuts. [0] https://github.com/TheAssassin/AppImageLauncher https://github.com/TheAssassin/AppImageLauncher
ajyotirmay 2y ago
I'm sorry, but today I don't recommend Ubuntu to event people who are very familiar with Linux Distros. I'm personally using Debian Testing on my daily driver, and Debian Stable on my home server. I started with Linux Mint, then Ubuntu. I don't remember which Ubuntu it was, but it had Gnome 2 and then later had fun with the Unity Desktop versions. When they started being the bully, I started distro hopping and then finally settled with Debian (because of my personal values as well). I can't trust a for-profit company to care about its users. Today I try to use as many FOSS alternatives and projects supported by community. Ubuntu is no better than Windows 11 at this point. It's just lesser evil of two. Try something else, Pop_OS!, Linux Mint, Manjaro Linux, Fedora, etc. Plenty of good options out there. Debian too, if you don't want a solid stable long term OS.

pmlnr 2y ago

> Ubuntu There's your problem ;) Mint has been much more user friendly for a long time. I've been on Manjaro for some time now, and I'm quite happy with it.

Aerbil313 2y ago
Agreed, Mint is the better Ubuntu. And if you squint hard enough, you can find people like me who'll claim NixOS is more beginner-friendly than any other distro.
- dartos 2y ago
  The amount of background Linux know how you need for nixos is insane. Basically nothing you’ll want to do is googleable. I’d recommend arch to a newbie before nix. Once you get a handle on things, nix is pretty nice.
- fransje26 2y ago
  At that level, it's not a squint anymore. It's full strabismus..

ernst_klim 2y ago

> I can't use my PC anymore It's not your computer anymore, it's this computer.

xemdetia 2y ago

I recommend Debian + Cinnamon right now over KDE for people who want that Windows + searchable start menu now get out of my way. Right now for me KDE is a bit much.

mergy 2y ago
This is where I am landing as well after a long time with XFCE on Debian. You have to take some time to set panels and applets up and get some Spice applets and you are all set.
- xemdetia 2y ago
  Yeah, I was a LXDE user for the longest time but with hidpi displays it started falling apart. Cinnamon ended up being the right amount of utility as a baseline and it has felt like a stable place to be since I swapped.
tracker1 2y ago
I've been a pretty big fan of Pop myself. Looking forward to Cosmos going into release.

logicprog 2y ago

It's unfortunate, and I mean this genuinely here, in a sympathetic way, that you felt afoul of the common error that people who checked in with Linux 6 or more years ago make: assuming that Ubuntu is still the best and easiest to use distribution. Unfortunately, it really isn't anymore — the way they are pushing snaps (including forcing you to install snaps instead of regular packages even if you use the regular package manager) is really unfortunate because of how fucked snaps are to use, not to mention the fact that snaps are hardcoded to only be able to install from the proprietary closed source snap repository Canonical runs, and that store is full of crypto scams. Plus, in general, desktop PC Ubuntu has been getting buggier and more unreliable over time as Canonical switches their focus to the server. Honestly, if there was one misconception about Linux that I could erase with a snap of my fingers from all potential users minds, it would be that they should start with Ubuntu. IMO Debian is a pretty good choice if you have hardware that's about 2 to 4 years old or more and don't really care about getting the latest driver updates or advances in the Linux ecosystem, so you should have a better experience there, but if it starts to frustrate you that it takes years for huge fixes and advancements to make their way to you, I really enjoy Fedora. :-) Also, you mentioned two of the major alternative application packaging formats, snap and appimage, but have you heard of our Lord and savior Flatpak? :p It has all of the benefits of snaps (namely sandboxing, consistent environments and packaging dependencies along with applications, updates directly from upstream, distribution agnostic packaging, and automatic integration with your desktop environment) but none of the downsides (namely far better desktop environment integration thanks to portals and much much faster startup times and no perf impact during runtime unlike snaps). A lot of people talk down about them but I think that's mostly FUD.

sevensor 2y ago
Strongly agree about Debian. I'm a longtime Arch user, but it causes headaches when you let a machine get too far out of date, and I wanted something I could put on the stack of old laptops in my closet. One by one, I'm migrating those to Debian Stable. It doesn't matter that everything is a major version behind; these laptops are now single-purpose machines that I rarely boot. They will always be behind regardless, and they might as well be behind on Debian Stable. It works flawlessly, and it's quite simple to set up at this point. (Also, having ancient single-purpose laptops is fantastic. I have one for recreational programming, and that's all I use it for. I have another for curating my music collection, and one for games. They don't need to be fast, or up to date, or power efficient, because I don't use them all the time. But when I do use them, it's nice to have them set up just so for the thing I want to use them for.)

jacobwilliamroy 2y ago

>this should be core OS GUI functionality Be careful. This is how distros start.

kspacewalk2 2y ago
https://xkcd.com/2116/ https://xkcd.com/2116/

jjice 2y ago

> There's some seriously dumb issues with it: Ubuntu snaps are terrible... It's so upsetting that Ubuntu went so hard in on Snaps. I just end up with issues caused by their sandboxing with hardware and config access and you end up having to fight to find a normal .deb install for FF instead of that damn default Snap. I hope the journey isn't too rough for you though - best of luck!

G3rn0ti 2y ago
I understand your frustration with snaps, but I consider it a very good distribution channel for commercial applications on Linux systems. Something that Appimage or Flatpak could not easily provide without a commercial entity backing it like Canonical.
- vetinari 2y ago
  Snap is a dead-end; but as usual, it takes some time until Canonical realizes that. If you want to easily distribute commercial applications, use flatpak. You could even have your own flatpak repo for your own products, if you wanted (it is really just static http).
  - tracker1 2y ago
    Snap apparently has a few advantages, like supporting non-gui apps (for servers) which isn't a good fit for AppImage or Flatpak. That said, I generally stick to Docker for server apps. I agree that the flatpak/appimage/snap options for apps, and in particular commercial apps is a decent idea. I think integration and permissions should probably move to something similar to the UX for phone apps though... it feels weird having to try to configure permissions that should be in the box.
burning_hamster 2y ago
I am also not a fan of the pivot to Snap. However, it is worth mentioning, that it has only been two years (I think, at least 22.04 LTS was the first release I had to wrestle with them on my machine), and the experience has become a lot better during this time.

necrotic_comp 2y ago

Agreed with the sibling posts. Ubuntu isn't a great experience - it feels seamless until it breaks, and then it's just a world of pain. Debian/Mint/etc. are all good distros, but if you're willing to step up the learning curve just a bit, I'd definitely suggest Gentoo. I've been using it as my daily driver for several years now and it's made me feel like I'm actually in control of my machine (compiling all your code with debug flags so you can attach gdb when it's behaving weird so you can write a patch?! And then submit it to get sucked into upstream!? Yes please!). There's definitely a little work up front, but it's without a doubt the best experience I've had with Linux and I'd recommend it if you're up for it.

ragnese 2y ago

Yeah, snaps are really shitty. And in general, desktop Linux is just as buggy and maybe even more half-baked than it was when I started using it in 2007. But, I own my machines. I don't need to ask permission from a company to be able to log in to my machine. I can install or uninstall whatever the hell I want.

AiAi 2y ago

There is AppImageLauncher [0] that can make it easier to get launcher shortcuts. [0] https://github.com/TheAssassin/AppImageLauncher https://github.com/TheAssassin/AppImageLauncher

ajyotirmay 2y ago

I'm sorry, but today I don't recommend Ubuntu to event people who are very familiar with Linux Distros. I'm personally using Debian Testing on my daily driver, and Debian Stable on my home server. I started with Linux Mint, then Ubuntu. I don't remember which Ubuntu it was, but it had Gnome 2 and then later had fun with the Unity Desktop versions. When they started being the bully, I started distro hopping and then finally settled with Debian (because of my personal values as well). I can't trust a for-profit company to care about its users. Today I try to use as many FOSS alternatives and projects supported by community. Ubuntu is no better than Windows 11 at this point. It's just lesser evil of two. Try something else, Pop_OS!, Linux Mint, Manjaro Linux, Fedora, etc. Plenty of good options out there. Debian too, if you don't want a solid stable long term OS.