4 ms·

Everybody cries about Microsoft but Android's level of spying is unmatched and MS is just catching up. Yet for some reason Google is a darling of folks here. Ju

Everybody cries about Microsoft but Android's level of spying is unmatched and MS is just catching up. Yet for some reason Google is a darling of folks here. Just try to turn off WiFi on your Android phone and see how much longer your battery lasts... All of that power goes to spying on you.

beeboobaa3 2y ago
Got any actual proof? About stuff that can't just be toggled off that is
- Zhyl 2y ago
  So literally just now I opened the Google photos app and it came up with a nag screen to turn on auto-backup which I had already explicitly turned off. The message was worded to make it sound like they were doing me a favour and it was difficult to close the banner (I just exited the app because what I needed to do was possible with a less invasive version). I would not go so far as GP as to say that this dark pattern is better or worse than what Microsoft is doing, but I think it is a fair point that a Google/Microsoft account is needed on the biggest mobile/desktop platforms respectively and their attitude to privacy and user agency is somewhere between laissez-faire and contemptuous. With Android there does at least feel like with F-Droid, different OEMs, alternative apps, the web and even Other android spins that these aren't quite the lockdown that Windows is, although it's fair to say that in either case you shouldn't really be constantly on your guard for the next way that your operating system is going to try to trick you into giving away more of your stuff to them.
  - beeboobaa3 2y ago
    Google is naggy, which is annying, I agree. But as far as I know they let you turn everything off.
    - Zhyl 2y ago
      Can you download apps and use the app store without a Google account? That's probably the biggest analogue to TFA here.
      - beeboobaa3 2y ago
        Sure, it's not convenient for normies but you can just download the apk from somewhere and then install it, just like you can do with an .exe or installer on windows.
      - weberer 2y ago
        You can use Fdroid and sideload apps, but Google makes it impossible to run most apps without Google Play Services running in the background.
        beeboobaa3 2y ago
        > but Google makes it impossible to run most apps without Google Play Services running in the background. It's actually the developers of the app doing that. I make sure to minimize such dependencies.
  - rubenbe 2y ago
    I agree, the dialogs are getting increasingly frequent and harder to "click" away. I'm open for suggestions for an open-source Android image gallery app.
DaSHacka 2y ago
Turning off the WiFi doesn't do anything, Android phones stockpile location-based telemetry while in airplane mode and upload it once you reconnect to the internet[1]. I can't speak for everyone here, but not all of us use stock ROMs and Google Play Services. I personally use GrapheneOS, which let's you significantly neuter Google's spyware capabilities. [1] https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DCN-Google-Data-Collection-Paper.pdf https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DC...
politelemon 2y ago
> Yet for some reason Google is a darling of folks here We must be browsing different HNs!
rcfox 2y ago
> Just try to turn off WiFi on your Android phone and see how much longer your battery lasts... All of that power goes to spying on you. Having WiFi turned on will drain your battery faster by virtue of connecting to WiFi. Even worse, if it's on but not connected, it will periodically look for networks to connect to. The same is true for cellular service.
- treprinum 2y ago
  iPhone lasts much longer than Android while connected to WiFi so it's unlikely that.
solardev 2y ago
I don't care about the spying stuff, but Windows is just so god damned ANNOYING all the time. It always wants me to drop everything and update Windows right then and there or get the latest 0.0.1 version of Office when I'm trying to make a presentation, or sync all my Google Docs to Onedrive, or make me see a dozen ads just to open the start menu, or have three different control panels and two registry strings and four group policies for the same one setting. It's just an incredibly user hostile operating system that only a broken bureaucracy like Microsoft's feudal dynasties can build. In contrast, I love Android, even more than any desktop Linux, macos, ios, etc. It just works and the notifications are super customizable and Pixel blocks 90% of my spam and texts and the adblock is system wide (via VPN) and it auto updates overnight and just never gets in my way. For every Windows annoyance I've had, there are entire months or years where Android just keeps on working, even across new phones and new major versions. Google may be the spiest of them all, but at least they can deliver a great user experience and operating system. It's not perfect (I still miss my old style notification shade system controls), but it's a lot less noisy than Windows. A good operating system should stay out of the way, not make itself the center of attention at every possible opportunity.
bee_rider 2y ago
I see a lot of negative comments about Google here. They are just more competent than MS. Google is also an ad company, the bar for their behavior is lower. MS used to be an OS company. Many of the users here remember the time when there was a supplier/customer relationship with MS. It is probably hard to imagine if you are, like, under 25, but MS actually used to be this kind of interesting company that enabled people doing new, fun things on their computers. Of course they are just another garbage factory now, but it’s hard to update your priors sometimes.

beeboobaa3 2y ago

Got any actual proof? About stuff that can't just be toggled off that is

Zhyl 2y ago
So literally just now I opened the Google photos app and it came up with a nag screen to turn on auto-backup which I had already explicitly turned off. The message was worded to make it sound like they were doing me a favour and it was difficult to close the banner (I just exited the app because what I needed to do was possible with a less invasive version). I would not go so far as GP as to say that this dark pattern is better or worse than what Microsoft is doing, but I think it is a fair point that a Google/Microsoft account is needed on the biggest mobile/desktop platforms respectively and their attitude to privacy and user agency is somewhere between laissez-faire and contemptuous. With Android there does at least feel like with F-Droid, different OEMs, alternative apps, the web and even Other android spins that these aren't quite the lockdown that Windows is, although it's fair to say that in either case you shouldn't really be constantly on your guard for the next way that your operating system is going to try to trick you into giving away more of your stuff to them.
- beeboobaa3 2y ago
  Google is naggy, which is annying, I agree. But as far as I know they let you turn everything off.
  - Zhyl 2y ago
    Can you download apps and use the app store without a Google account? That's probably the biggest analogue to TFA here.
    - beeboobaa3 2y ago
      Sure, it's not convenient for normies but you can just download the apk from somewhere and then install it, just like you can do with an .exe or installer on windows.
    - weberer 2y ago
      You can use Fdroid and sideload apps, but Google makes it impossible to run most apps without Google Play Services running in the background.
      - beeboobaa3 2y ago
        > but Google makes it impossible to run most apps without Google Play Services running in the background. It's actually the developers of the app doing that. I make sure to minimize such dependencies.
- rubenbe 2y ago
  I agree, the dialogs are getting increasingly frequent and harder to "click" away. I'm open for suggestions for an open-source Android image gallery app.

DaSHacka 2y ago

Turning off the WiFi doesn't do anything, Android phones stockpile location-based telemetry while in airplane mode and upload it once you reconnect to the internet[1]. I can't speak for everyone here, but not all of us use stock ROMs and Google Play Services. I personally use GrapheneOS, which let's you significantly neuter Google's spyware capabilities. [1] https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DCN-Google-Data-Collection-Paper.pdf https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DC...

politelemon 2y ago

> Yet for some reason Google is a darling of folks here We must be browsing different HNs!

rcfox 2y ago

> Just try to turn off WiFi on your Android phone and see how much longer your battery lasts... All of that power goes to spying on you. Having WiFi turned on will drain your battery faster by virtue of connecting to WiFi. Even worse, if it's on but not connected, it will periodically look for networks to connect to. The same is true for cellular service.

treprinum 2y ago
iPhone lasts much longer than Android while connected to WiFi so it's unlikely that.

solardev 2y ago

I don't care about the spying stuff, but Windows is just so god damned ANNOYING all the time. It always wants me to drop everything and update Windows right then and there or get the latest 0.0.1 version of Office when I'm trying to make a presentation, or sync all my Google Docs to Onedrive, or make me see a dozen ads just to open the start menu, or have three different control panels and two registry strings and four group policies for the same one setting. It's just an incredibly user hostile operating system that only a broken bureaucracy like Microsoft's feudal dynasties can build. In contrast, I love Android, even more than any desktop Linux, macos, ios, etc. It just works and the notifications are super customizable and Pixel blocks 90% of my spam and texts and the adblock is system wide (via VPN) and it auto updates overnight and just never gets in my way. For every Windows annoyance I've had, there are entire months or years where Android just keeps on working, even across new phones and new major versions. Google may be the spiest of them all, but at least they can deliver a great user experience and operating system. It's not perfect (I still miss my old style notification shade system controls), but it's a lot less noisy than Windows. A good operating system should stay out of the way, not make itself the center of attention at every possible opportunity.

bee_rider 2y ago

I see a lot of negative comments about Google here. They are just more competent than MS. Google is also an ad company, the bar for their behavior is lower. MS used to be an OS company. Many of the users here remember the time when there was a supplier/customer relationship with MS. It is probably hard to imagine if you are, like, under 25, but MS actually used to be this kind of interesting company that enabled people doing new, fun things on their computers. Of course they are just another garbage factory now, but it’s hard to update your priors sometimes.