3 ms·

well the first thing is that having to earn an income is not something that was optional really. Sure you can decide to not do it, but then you have tradeoffs i

well the first thing is that having to earn an income is not something that was optional really. Sure you can decide to not do it, but then you have tradeoffs in how comfortable your life situation is. its kind of a free time XOR money situation when you're not born wealthy. free time without money sucks differently than money without free time. and with making money, some amounts of duties are attached, depending on how you do it. more like a "pick your poison" situation instead of being optional entirely. also I have sold too many visions to too many people by myself professionally to actually believe the "change the world" bullshit anymore, ever. organizations first and foremost exist to make money, even charities at some point either prioritize it to some extend or they cease to function, and charities also tend to not pay well compared to real industry jobs, so again trade-offs. you can say "well thats the system" or "thats how capitalism works!" - and then you have it, "the system" forced these duties onto myself. I personally would prefer an environment not focussed on money, being able to live comfortably and being able to do things that are interesting or truly helpful for others instead. But hey, most people can imagine the literal end of the world easier than the end of capitalism, even though the concept itself isn't that old or "god given" to begin with. people discussing the "future of work" in the face of rising AI and robotics really should have a look at Marx again how this will play out.

mapcars 2y ago
Let me try to expand what I mean, because it's not a simple topic of course. As you pointed correctly, the focus is mainly on the comfort level. For people who are in economically low, criminal countries or war situations it's a matter of survival and is different. So in more or less developed countries it's not a question of survival but a question of comfort. And the important thing we must understand about comfort is that it is an endless pursuit, there is any number of examples of people having unimaginable amount of money and comfort and still wanting more. Being aware that our life time is limited and comfort level is endless the smart thing would be to decide: how much comfort do I need realistically? And it's different from person to person and for different stages in life, there is no common prescription. Yes the "system" forces us to some extent, but the desire for comfort levels does it on a much bigger scale. So while there are economic, political and social systems that affect us, considering all this an individual should make a decision on how much money/comfort is enough for them and how to earn it, ideally aligning with what one cares for in their life, or at least something one finds fun in. This way one can be conscious and stop seeing their job as "pointless" or "poison" but instead as something that enables their current level of comfort (which they consciously chose) and other things they can do with the remaining time.
- anonyfox 2y ago
  while I do agree with the reasoning, this _still_ is a matter of justification after the fact for me. Aka: here is the stuff you need to do in order to get to X. Who defines that path/checkpoints? Its mandated by the system we operate within basically. Similar to "just accept things as they are" and try to make the best out of it - which is of course what I am doing right now, I am not an idiot and have to provide for a family. Still I question the rules/system as a whole. Speaking very optimistically: we're about to enter a phase of abundance, where "robots do the work" including "robots build more/better robots" can likely happen in the next decades. The very idea of everyone having to work at all in this scenario is outdated, even if it might need a forceful/violent redistribution of wealth (again) to not end up in some weird dystopia. Basically I'd like to everyone (not just me) to have a default comfort level that is at least my current baseline, without and tradeoffs/sacrifices to be made elsewhere in ones life. And then the decision process should start about what to do with life, and very likely the outcome would be vastly different for many people compared to right now. And I strongly believe quite a lot of people would fill their days with what we now would call "work" or pushing boundaries in various areas - but decidedly so. Imagine the sheer amount of innovations that could happen if the current top tier talent that works on marketing/ads today would spend their time doing actually useful/cool things instead of hunting the money of their current jobs. Even just a fraction of those people. It might introduce a new Renaissance in society to free up the cogwheels from the rat races!
  - mapcars 2y ago
    > Basically I'd like to everyone (not just me) to have a default comfort level Sure, this is what the whole social and economic systems are for, todays comfort levels are much better than 100-300 years ago. I surely hope AI will raise the bar soon, while it is happening it's good to understand how we ended up where we are and accept that so we can be ready for the changes.

mapcars 2y ago

Let me try to expand what I mean, because it's not a simple topic of course. As you pointed correctly, the focus is mainly on the comfort level. For people who are in economically low, criminal countries or war situations it's a matter of survival and is different. So in more or less developed countries it's not a question of survival but a question of comfort. And the important thing we must understand about comfort is that it is an endless pursuit, there is any number of examples of people having unimaginable amount of money and comfort and still wanting more. Being aware that our life time is limited and comfort level is endless the smart thing would be to decide: how much comfort do I need realistically? And it's different from person to person and for different stages in life, there is no common prescription. Yes the "system" forces us to some extent, but the desire for comfort levels does it on a much bigger scale. So while there are economic, political and social systems that affect us, considering all this an individual should make a decision on how much money/comfort is enough for them and how to earn it, ideally aligning with what one cares for in their life, or at least something one finds fun in. This way one can be conscious and stop seeing their job as "pointless" or "poison" but instead as something that enables their current level of comfort (which they consciously chose) and other things they can do with the remaining time.

anonyfox 2y ago
while I do agree with the reasoning, this _still_ is a matter of justification after the fact for me. Aka: here is the stuff you need to do in order to get to X. Who defines that path/checkpoints? Its mandated by the system we operate within basically. Similar to "just accept things as they are" and try to make the best out of it - which is of course what I am doing right now, I am not an idiot and have to provide for a family. Still I question the rules/system as a whole. Speaking very optimistically: we're about to enter a phase of abundance, where "robots do the work" including "robots build more/better robots" can likely happen in the next decades. The very idea of everyone having to work at all in this scenario is outdated, even if it might need a forceful/violent redistribution of wealth (again) to not end up in some weird dystopia. Basically I'd like to everyone (not just me) to have a default comfort level that is at least my current baseline, without and tradeoffs/sacrifices to be made elsewhere in ones life. And then the decision process should start about what to do with life, and very likely the outcome would be vastly different for many people compared to right now. And I strongly believe quite a lot of people would fill their days with what we now would call "work" or pushing boundaries in various areas - but decidedly so. Imagine the sheer amount of innovations that could happen if the current top tier talent that works on marketing/ads today would spend their time doing actually useful/cool things instead of hunting the money of their current jobs. Even just a fraction of those people. It might introduce a new Renaissance in society to free up the cogwheels from the rat races!
- mapcars 2y ago
  > Basically I'd like to everyone (not just me) to have a default comfort level Sure, this is what the whole social and economic systems are for, todays comfort levels are much better than 100-300 years ago. I surely hope AI will raise the bar soon, while it is happening it's good to understand how we ended up where we are and accept that so we can be ready for the changes.