4 ms·

Personally I chase being in a bored state. Adult life with all the duties is exhausting and drains mental/physical energy every day, to the point that nothing

Personally I chase being in a bored state. Adult life with all the duties is exhausting and drains mental/physical energy every day, to the point that nothing _meaningful_ can be achieved really. No, usually work is pointless exchange of time/energy vs money in order to live comfortably, sometimes sugarcoated in a higher "mission/vision". Being in a stressed state also favors a mindset of "getting it done" with the actual goal of getting rid of the task at hand, aka "productivity", and some people think that a series of these completitions are a trajectory towards something rewarding - for me it isn't. But when there are these moments where duties (work, kids, household, ...) are actually done, when there is no desire to play/watch the latest thing right now, this is when the good kind of boredom kicks in for me: aimless reflection. mentally consolidating myself into the world, where am I, where things are going to, where I want to be next, how to probably get there. Going through it feels very relaxing, and activates some very existential kind of creativity (not the "solve the problem smarter thing), and fuels my energy a lot more than anything else in life. Being in this bored state is a precursor of feeling control over life again, and adjusting the inner compass to get updated directions to follow. ... but this doesn't happen when being busy/distracted, a state that drains my energy, and even accumulates dread every single day until the stressors are gone again and I feel "bored".

okokwhatever 2y ago
agree totally
mapcars 2y ago
I think you are missing the main point is that all the duties you picked up yourself because you saw some value in them, they were not forced on you. Trying to understand why you did that in the first place might help. >usually work is pointless exchange of time/energy vs money This is a terrible normality, if you don't have a greater vision to work towards by yourself, at least find work that is fun.
- anonyfox 2y ago
  well the first thing is that having to earn an income is not something that was optional really. Sure you can decide to not do it, but then you have tradeoffs in how comfortable your life situation is. its kind of a free time XOR money situation when you're not born wealthy. free time without money sucks differently than money without free time. and with making money, some amounts of duties are attached, depending on how you do it. more like a "pick your poison" situation instead of being optional entirely. also I have sold too many visions to too many people by myself professionally to actually believe the "change the world" bullshit anymore, ever. organizations first and foremost exist to make money, even charities at some point either prioritize it to some extend or they cease to function, and charities also tend to not pay well compared to real industry jobs, so again trade-offs. you can say "well thats the system" or "thats how capitalism works!" - and then you have it, "the system" forced these duties onto myself. I personally would prefer an environment not focussed on money, being able to live comfortably and being able to do things that are interesting or truly helpful for others instead. But hey, most people can imagine the literal end of the world easier than the end of capitalism, even though the concept itself isn't that old or "god given" to begin with. people discussing the "future of work" in the face of rising AI and robotics really should have a look at Marx again how this will play out.
  - mapcars 2y ago
    Let me try to expand what I mean, because it's not a simple topic of course. As you pointed correctly, the focus is mainly on the comfort level. For people who are in economically low, criminal countries or war situations it's a matter of survival and is different. So in more or less developed countries it's not a question of survival but a question of comfort. And the important thing we must understand about comfort is that it is an endless pursuit, there is any number of examples of people having unimaginable amount of money and comfort and still wanting more. Being aware that our life time is limited and comfort level is endless the smart thing would be to decide: how much comfort do I need realistically? And it's different from person to person and for different stages in life, there is no common prescription. Yes the "system" forces us to some extent, but the desire for comfort levels does it on a much bigger scale. So while there are economic, political and social systems that affect us, considering all this an individual should make a decision on how much money/comfort is enough for them and how to earn it, ideally aligning with what one cares for in their life, or at least something one finds fun in. This way one can be conscious and stop seeing their job as "pointless" or "poison" but instead as something that enables their current level of comfort (which they consciously chose) and other things they can do with the remaining time.
silverquiet 2y ago
I live a life of essentially aimless reflection, and while I can appreciate it, I can tell you that it can also be too much - as the sibling comment alludes, you must be getting something out of (work, kids, household, ...), because I can attest that while I agree with you that work isn't really optional in an industrial society if you want a few modern amenities, the other parts of that set are.
- anonyfox 2y ago
  agreed in general! however, thats the crucial point for me. example: time with kids. when there are tradeoffs everywhere, and assume I am in the more money/less time spectrum, there are situations where I simply have to kill time with the kids or get them engaged somehow. Its not quality time at all, its mostly a distraction while other duties are piling up on top. I feel guilty, and the kids probably won't have a great time. This is a vastly different situation when there are no conflicting duties in that moment, and I can freely decide to spent quality time with them, and be creative upfront about what cool endeavor we could tackle together. The point is that I want to be always in the latter state, without making any sacrifices on amenities/comfort because of that. Aligning everything perfectly in todays world as-is basically means hitting the lottery jackpot. The high paying jobs are either bullshit/boring or the good ones extremely rare, there are market reasons why they're paid highly in most cases after all. So its either sucking it up or make sacrifices elsewhere.
  - silverquiet 2y ago
    Yes, almost no one gets to have it all, but if you could go back and change anything, would you?
    - anonyfox 2y ago
      Definitely, quite a few things, especially related to career. Which then would change subsequent things I did and had to make decisions that might be rational today but still feel wrong. Basically I played the current game with the hand given to me as good as possible, and quite successful measured by some standards. But most things still feel utterly useless after all, even though well paid. Can fully reasonate with the "bullshit jobs" narrative. _So many_ people are desperately trying to extract money from a system without providing any substantial value to society beyond a vague narrative, argumented as "if its useless nobody would pay for it!" that doesn't really reflect reality today.

okokwhatever 2y ago

agree totally

mapcars 2y ago

I think you are missing the main point is that all the duties you picked up yourself because you saw some value in them, they were not forced on you. Trying to understand why you did that in the first place might help. >usually work is pointless exchange of time/energy vs money This is a terrible normality, if you don't have a greater vision to work towards by yourself, at least find work that is fun.

anonyfox 2y ago
well the first thing is that having to earn an income is not something that was optional really. Sure you can decide to not do it, but then you have tradeoffs in how comfortable your life situation is. its kind of a free time XOR money situation when you're not born wealthy. free time without money sucks differently than money without free time. and with making money, some amounts of duties are attached, depending on how you do it. more like a "pick your poison" situation instead of being optional entirely. also I have sold too many visions to too many people by myself professionally to actually believe the "change the world" bullshit anymore, ever. organizations first and foremost exist to make money, even charities at some point either prioritize it to some extend or they cease to function, and charities also tend to not pay well compared to real industry jobs, so again trade-offs. you can say "well thats the system" or "thats how capitalism works!" - and then you have it, "the system" forced these duties onto myself. I personally would prefer an environment not focussed on money, being able to live comfortably and being able to do things that are interesting or truly helpful for others instead. But hey, most people can imagine the literal end of the world easier than the end of capitalism, even though the concept itself isn't that old or "god given" to begin with. people discussing the "future of work" in the face of rising AI and robotics really should have a look at Marx again how this will play out.
- mapcars 2y ago
  Let me try to expand what I mean, because it's not a simple topic of course. As you pointed correctly, the focus is mainly on the comfort level. For people who are in economically low, criminal countries or war situations it's a matter of survival and is different. So in more or less developed countries it's not a question of survival but a question of comfort. And the important thing we must understand about comfort is that it is an endless pursuit, there is any number of examples of people having unimaginable amount of money and comfort and still wanting more. Being aware that our life time is limited and comfort level is endless the smart thing would be to decide: how much comfort do I need realistically? And it's different from person to person and for different stages in life, there is no common prescription. Yes the "system" forces us to some extent, but the desire for comfort levels does it on a much bigger scale. So while there are economic, political and social systems that affect us, considering all this an individual should make a decision on how much money/comfort is enough for them and how to earn it, ideally aligning with what one cares for in their life, or at least something one finds fun in. This way one can be conscious and stop seeing their job as "pointless" or "poison" but instead as something that enables their current level of comfort (which they consciously chose) and other things they can do with the remaining time.

silverquiet 2y ago

I live a life of essentially aimless reflection, and while I can appreciate it, I can tell you that it can also be too much - as the sibling comment alludes, you must be getting something out of (work, kids, household, ...), because I can attest that while I agree with you that work isn't really optional in an industrial society if you want a few modern amenities, the other parts of that set are.

anonyfox 2y ago
agreed in general! however, thats the crucial point for me. example: time with kids. when there are tradeoffs everywhere, and assume I am in the more money/less time spectrum, there are situations where I simply have to kill time with the kids or get them engaged somehow. Its not quality time at all, its mostly a distraction while other duties are piling up on top. I feel guilty, and the kids probably won't have a great time. This is a vastly different situation when there are no conflicting duties in that moment, and I can freely decide to spent quality time with them, and be creative upfront about what cool endeavor we could tackle together. The point is that I want to be always in the latter state, without making any sacrifices on amenities/comfort because of that. Aligning everything perfectly in todays world as-is basically means hitting the lottery jackpot. The high paying jobs are either bullshit/boring or the good ones extremely rare, there are market reasons why they're paid highly in most cases after all. So its either sucking it up or make sacrifices elsewhere.
- silverquiet 2y ago
  Yes, almost no one gets to have it all, but if you could go back and change anything, would you?
  - anonyfox 2y ago
    Definitely, quite a few things, especially related to career. Which then would change subsequent things I did and had to make decisions that might be rational today but still feel wrong. Basically I played the current game with the hand given to me as good as possible, and quite successful measured by some standards. But most things still feel utterly useless after all, even though well paid. Can fully reasonate with the "bullshit jobs" narrative. _So many_ people are desperately trying to extract money from a system without providing any substantial value to society beyond a vague narrative, argumented as "if its useless nobody would pay for it!" that doesn't really reflect reality today.