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This isn't something good though, in fact it's really bad. He's actually agreed to confess to something which the US should have no legal authority over. We m

This isn't something good though, in fact it's really bad. He's actually agreed to confess to something which the US should have no legal authority over. We must remember that the US are torturers who tortured people here in Sweden, right at Bromma airport, even after specifically agreeing not to torture them. It is not a country which should have any influence whatsoever outside its borders; and this is someone who exposed very severe crimes and who had no duty whatsoever to keep any US defence information secret.

RCitronsBroker 2y ago
I wholeheartedly agree. Thank you for caring. Sincerely, an afghan.
- impossiblefork 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - RCitronsBroker 2y ago
    this feels like a mistype. if it’s not, unfortunately there isn’t much afghan culture left at this point, at least the lovely parts. blown to bits and driven into diaspora, infested with the drug trade and extremism to cope with the state of their country and lives. we still love to be hosts and cook for people tho, so there’s that. My heart still aches for a future where at least the poppies are of the pharmaceutical thebaine-kind. Things are downright horrible atm.
    - impossiblefork 2y ago
      No. Obviously you regard Afghan culture as something valuable and good, since you're from there, but I see culture as tree, and if it has bad outcomes, I regard the branch that produced the poisoned tree as a poison tree. Then it's a matter of how far one wants to backtrack, and I suppose that's how much one cares about other aspects of the fruit. I think much of the problem is Islam + Central Asia/Mongols/steppe conquests, and I think either is bad enough on its own.
      - RCitronsBroker 2y ago
        the outcomes of that branch were much better and worlds more secular before the country was invaded twice. Matter of fact, by that measure, how does a branch that just got over their eugenic fantasies[0] talking about "poisoned branches" fare? I’ll refrain from judging your viewpoint, but I don’t think it’s controversial to interpret this as trying to judge cultures objectively, no? That inherently includes a lot of trust in one’s viewpoint and knowledge to judge off of. Just the snippet you posted here does not inspire a lot of confidence. Being unable to discern between the product of a society and the situation after an exogenous power funded and armed the outer most fringe of deplorable religious extremism, under the delusion they would be fighting the commies and noone else, is not the good look you think it is. But hey, I’m sure you regard your own opinion as something valuable and positive, it’s your own after all ;) [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilisation_in_Sweden https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilisation_in_...
        stef25 2y ago
        > after an exogenous power funded and armed the outer most fringe of deplorable religious extremism How much time should pass before it's no longer seen as America's fault ? Assuming you're referring to the arming of the mujaheddin.
        RCitronsBroker 2y ago
        things take longer to repair than to crush. There have been countless waves of anyone with the ability and means to leave leaving, the drug trade is engrained in a way it was, undeniably so, not before the Soviet invasion. The mismanagement and purposeful acceptance of disastrous consequences for Afghanistan did not end with the funding of the mujahedeen. It continued up to, and including, the US pull out. Which is by no means a long time ago. Leaving behind unthinkable amounts of arms in a situation as explosive as left behind isn’t much better in terms of stability. Instead of talking about what ifs, why don’t you have a look at what has been. Pre-Soviet Afghanistan is truely worlds apart from anything you’d now connect with living in Afghanistan. If you so desperately want the afghans to be at fault for their demise, how did that happen? Close relatives of mine try to reform and expand Kandahar university clinic and med school, they all have built a comfortable living abroad, they owe that to no one. Of course, there are more than enough elements in Afghanistan that have contributed to their collective fate, profited and now hinder progress. I’m not here to defend them, i despise them. But that’s nothing different to any other country, they just have wayyy more destruction and suffering to foster and grow. Germany just needed a few decades of, in comparison laughable, economic mismanagement, for new politicians talking about gas chambers[0] to emerge. Let’s not act like that’s a uniquely afghan reaction to misery of any sort. Still horrible from all perspectives, no denying that. [0] https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article206589067/AfD-Fluegel-Hoecke-spricht-vom-Ausschwitzen-seiner-Gegner.html https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article206589067/AfD...
    - impossiblefork 2y ago
      Yes, sorry, I misread my own comment and realised the absence of a 'not'.
  - dang 2y ago
    As you made it clear downthread that what you actually intended to post was "not friendly", I want to make sure that you see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40812343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40812343. First you responded to a friendly comment with a swipe and then you added more downthread to make sure you turned it into a slur. I feel ashamed of HN when I see people treating others this way. If that's not what you intended, please make more effort to disambiguate your intent in the future. That's every commenter's responsibility here. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=burden%20disambiguate%20by%3Adang&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
d_burfoot 2y ago
> It is not a country which should have any influence whatsoever outside its borders I wholly agree, as an American citizen
- pavlov 2y ago
  Be careful what you ask for. The United Kingdom went from a country with enormously outsized global influence to just another European nation. The downward spiral has been stark. The economy stagnates, more and more people live in poverty, and voters decided to inflict further self-harm by cutting themselves off from economic treaties with neighbors based on an illusion of self-importance. If America ends up in the same place, its collapse will be harder and more dangerous.
  - silver_silver 2y ago
    Utter nonsense. The UK has lost its outsized influence but the economic problems are at worst the same as in America. Property is less expensive even, and nobody’s at risk of being bankrupted by a medical emergency. The armies of homeless in American cities don’t exist across the Atlantic.
    - pavlov 2y ago
      I lived in London for a few years and saw the armies of homeless every day, no different from New York City. In my experience, UK is a country that has managed to combine the worst of America with the worst of Europe with very few redeeming benefits except for the richest 0.1%, who are indeed very well taken care of in England.
      - silver_silver 2y ago
        In the case of primary homelessness (UN definition), America is about 12x worse than the UK - see swores reply below. I am from neither continent and as an outsider America’s current problems seem to far outweigh any decline the European powers have experienced.
    - 2y ago
CivBase 2y ago
> It is not a country which should have any influence whatsoever outside its borders I'm not going to defend US autrocities, but why exactly is Sweeden and the EU allowing this stuff to happen on their soil?
- guappa 2y ago
  Because prime ministers who don't tend to get shot.
chinchilla2020 2y ago
Sweden is a country that enthusiastically supported the Nazi regime. If we are comparing crimes I think Sweden should also stay within it's own borders. Yet the calls from Swedes for the US to provide more Ukraine aid are deafening at this point. Swedes want the US to intervene when it benefits them, regardless of their chest-beating. Where is the criticism from Swedes when Russia murders its own journalists or China restricts freedom of speech? Please, if you are so anti-american, impress upon your countrymen to stay away from NATO. You people are clearly not interested in allying with the US.
- impossiblefork 2y ago
  How do you mean that we are to have enthusiastically supported the Nazis? We even warned the Soviet Union of Operation Barbarossa, using information we obtained from cracked Nazi codes. When one of my grandparents fled Norway due to the Nazis they were given asylum. During WWII Sweden was led by a political coalition consisting of the peasant's party and the social democrats, and in Germany, social democrat leadership got put into concentration camps as they were seen as communist-adjacent. >Yet the calls from Swedes for the US to provide more Ukraine aid are deafening at this point The Russians have probably threatened us behind the scenes and have probably been saying things that are quite extreme. Otherwise the social democrats wouldn't have flipped and had us join NATO. Furthermore, it's not like the US didn't want Ukraine to join the western block, so why shouldn't they help, now its attempt to do so is being met with an invasion? I don't hate America. There's much good about it, but the US should rule the US, the Swedes Sweden, and the Ukrainians Ukraine. Just as we help Ukraine, it is reasonable that the Americans do too, since it's near us, and since we're kind of in this together. >Where is the criticism from Swedes when Russia murders its own journalists or China restricts freedom of speech? Literally all the time? When has Swedish media stopped caring about people Politovskaya, etc >Please, if you are so anti-american, impress upon your countrymen to stay away from NATO. You people are clearly not interested in allying with the US. I am kind of personally opposed to our membership, but I don't hate America, nor am I necessarily anti-American as such. But I don't want US power in Europe, we should rule our lands, and the Americans theirs. If the Americans have influence here, then that is influence we ourselves do not have. Consequently, it can't be permitted. But this doesn't mean that we can't be friends. It means that the US can't have the keys to our house, or put cameras in it, or hang around the windows with binoculars, or decide what we buy, etcetera. I understand the US wanting to get at the maniacs after 9/11. 9/11 was much worse than is immediately apparent and there are details that anger me even now, that make me want to reach across the world and dash a whole bunch of people against walls and furniture, so I understand the desire to do something, even the extraordinary rendition stuff, to some degree, but you can't do this kind of thing. You weren't willing to actually go after the Saudis, which you probably should have, instead of the aggression against less relevant countries. Justice for individuals is important and soverignty is as well and even justified lashing out, when it is at odds with justice for an individual or soverignty of some foreign country, then it's not easy to go along with the lashing out of a country that is justified.
dang 2y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40784625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40784625.

RCitronsBroker 2y ago

I wholeheartedly agree. Thank you for caring. Sincerely, an afghan.

impossiblefork 2y ago
[flagged]
- RCitronsBroker 2y ago
  this feels like a mistype. if it’s not, unfortunately there isn’t much afghan culture left at this point, at least the lovely parts. blown to bits and driven into diaspora, infested with the drug trade and extremism to cope with the state of their country and lives. we still love to be hosts and cook for people tho, so there’s that. My heart still aches for a future where at least the poppies are of the pharmaceutical thebaine-kind. Things are downright horrible atm.
  - impossiblefork 2y ago
    No. Obviously you regard Afghan culture as something valuable and good, since you're from there, but I see culture as tree, and if it has bad outcomes, I regard the branch that produced the poisoned tree as a poison tree. Then it's a matter of how far one wants to backtrack, and I suppose that's how much one cares about other aspects of the fruit. I think much of the problem is Islam + Central Asia/Mongols/steppe conquests, and I think either is bad enough on its own.
    - RCitronsBroker 2y ago
      the outcomes of that branch were much better and worlds more secular before the country was invaded twice. Matter of fact, by that measure, how does a branch that just got over their eugenic fantasies[0] talking about "poisoned branches" fare? I’ll refrain from judging your viewpoint, but I don’t think it’s controversial to interpret this as trying to judge cultures objectively, no? That inherently includes a lot of trust in one’s viewpoint and knowledge to judge off of. Just the snippet you posted here does not inspire a lot of confidence. Being unable to discern between the product of a society and the situation after an exogenous power funded and armed the outer most fringe of deplorable religious extremism, under the delusion they would be fighting the commies and noone else, is not the good look you think it is. But hey, I’m sure you regard your own opinion as something valuable and positive, it’s your own after all ;) [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilisation_in_Sweden https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilisation_in_...
      - stef25 2y ago
        > after an exogenous power funded and armed the outer most fringe of deplorable religious extremism How much time should pass before it's no longer seen as America's fault ? Assuming you're referring to the arming of the mujaheddin.
        RCitronsBroker 2y ago
        things take longer to repair than to crush. There have been countless waves of anyone with the ability and means to leave leaving, the drug trade is engrained in a way it was, undeniably so, not before the Soviet invasion. The mismanagement and purposeful acceptance of disastrous consequences for Afghanistan did not end with the funding of the mujahedeen. It continued up to, and including, the US pull out. Which is by no means a long time ago. Leaving behind unthinkable amounts of arms in a situation as explosive as left behind isn’t much better in terms of stability. Instead of talking about what ifs, why don’t you have a look at what has been. Pre-Soviet Afghanistan is truely worlds apart from anything you’d now connect with living in Afghanistan. If you so desperately want the afghans to be at fault for their demise, how did that happen? Close relatives of mine try to reform and expand Kandahar university clinic and med school, they all have built a comfortable living abroad, they owe that to no one. Of course, there are more than enough elements in Afghanistan that have contributed to their collective fate, profited and now hinder progress. I’m not here to defend them, i despise them. But that’s nothing different to any other country, they just have wayyy more destruction and suffering to foster and grow. Germany just needed a few decades of, in comparison laughable, economic mismanagement, for new politicians talking about gas chambers[0] to emerge. Let’s not act like that’s a uniquely afghan reaction to misery of any sort. Still horrible from all perspectives, no denying that. [0] https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article206589067/AfD-Fluegel-Hoecke-spricht-vom-Ausschwitzen-seiner-Gegner.html https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article206589067/AfD...
  - impossiblefork 2y ago
    Yes, sorry, I misread my own comment and realised the absence of a 'not'.
- dang 2y ago
  As you made it clear downthread that what you actually intended to post was "not friendly", I want to make sure that you see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40812343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40812343. First you responded to a friendly comment with a swipe and then you added more downthread to make sure you turned it into a slur. I feel ashamed of HN when I see people treating others this way. If that's not what you intended, please make more effort to disambiguate your intent in the future. That's every commenter's responsibility here. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=burden%20disambiguate%20by%3Adang&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

d_burfoot 2y ago

> It is not a country which should have any influence whatsoever outside its borders I wholly agree, as an American citizen

pavlov 2y ago
Be careful what you ask for. The United Kingdom went from a country with enormously outsized global influence to just another European nation. The downward spiral has been stark. The economy stagnates, more and more people live in poverty, and voters decided to inflict further self-harm by cutting themselves off from economic treaties with neighbors based on an illusion of self-importance. If America ends up in the same place, its collapse will be harder and more dangerous.
- silver_silver 2y ago
  Utter nonsense. The UK has lost its outsized influence but the economic problems are at worst the same as in America. Property is less expensive even, and nobody’s at risk of being bankrupted by a medical emergency. The armies of homeless in American cities don’t exist across the Atlantic.
  - pavlov 2y ago
    I lived in London for a few years and saw the armies of homeless every day, no different from New York City. In my experience, UK is a country that has managed to combine the worst of America with the worst of Europe with very few redeeming benefits except for the richest 0.1%, who are indeed very well taken care of in England.
    - silver_silver 2y ago
      In the case of primary homelessness (UN definition), America is about 12x worse than the UK - see swores reply below. I am from neither continent and as an outsider America’s current problems seem to far outweigh any decline the European powers have experienced.
  - 2y ago

CivBase 2y ago

> It is not a country which should have any influence whatsoever outside its borders I'm not going to defend US autrocities, but why exactly is Sweeden and the EU allowing this stuff to happen on their soil?

guappa 2y ago
Because prime ministers who don't tend to get shot.

chinchilla2020 2y ago

Sweden is a country that enthusiastically supported the Nazi regime. If we are comparing crimes I think Sweden should also stay within it's own borders. Yet the calls from Swedes for the US to provide more Ukraine aid are deafening at this point. Swedes want the US to intervene when it benefits them, regardless of their chest-beating. Where is the criticism from Swedes when Russia murders its own journalists or China restricts freedom of speech? Please, if you are so anti-american, impress upon your countrymen to stay away from NATO. You people are clearly not interested in allying with the US.

impossiblefork 2y ago
How do you mean that we are to have enthusiastically supported the Nazis? We even warned the Soviet Union of Operation Barbarossa, using information we obtained from cracked Nazi codes. When one of my grandparents fled Norway due to the Nazis they were given asylum. During WWII Sweden was led by a political coalition consisting of the peasant's party and the social democrats, and in Germany, social democrat leadership got put into concentration camps as they were seen as communist-adjacent. >Yet the calls from Swedes for the US to provide more Ukraine aid are deafening at this point The Russians have probably threatened us behind the scenes and have probably been saying things that are quite extreme. Otherwise the social democrats wouldn't have flipped and had us join NATO. Furthermore, it's not like the US didn't want Ukraine to join the western block, so why shouldn't they help, now its attempt to do so is being met with an invasion? I don't hate America. There's much good about it, but the US should rule the US, the Swedes Sweden, and the Ukrainians Ukraine. Just as we help Ukraine, it is reasonable that the Americans do too, since it's near us, and since we're kind of in this together. >Where is the criticism from Swedes when Russia murders its own journalists or China restricts freedom of speech? Literally all the time? When has Swedish media stopped caring about people Politovskaya, etc >Please, if you are so anti-american, impress upon your countrymen to stay away from NATO. You people are clearly not interested in allying with the US. I am kind of personally opposed to our membership, but I don't hate America, nor am I necessarily anti-American as such. But I don't want US power in Europe, we should rule our lands, and the Americans theirs. If the Americans have influence here, then that is influence we ourselves do not have. Consequently, it can't be permitted. But this doesn't mean that we can't be friends. It means that the US can't have the keys to our house, or put cameras in it, or hang around the windows with binoculars, or decide what we buy, etcetera. I understand the US wanting to get at the maniacs after 9/11. 9/11 was much worse than is immediately apparent and there are details that anger me even now, that make me want to reach across the world and dash a whole bunch of people against walls and furniture, so I understand the desire to do something, even the extraordinary rendition stuff, to some degree, but you can't do this kind of thing. You weren't willing to actually go after the Saudis, which you probably should have, instead of the aggression against less relevant countries. Justice for individuals is important and soverignty is as well and even justified lashing out, when it is at odds with justice for an individual or soverignty of some foreign country, then it's not easy to go along with the lashing out of a country that is justified.

dang 2y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40784625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40784625.