5 ms·

Biodegrading plastics require above normal amounts of heat in order to degrade. I imagine this new bio plastic will be similar.

Ekaros 2y ago
Nature does not have above normal temperature. And I think article talk about the also degrading when just tossed to nature...
- pajko 2y ago
  But if it's possible to degrade it i solar-powered furnaces without any hazardous/toxic byproducts, it's already worth it. Or if microorganisms could decompose the buried stuff. Also composting is an exothermic reaction, generating heat up to 60C, which is above normal temperature anyway. The question is how waterproof it is, can it get wet or store liquids.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Qwertious 2y ago
    >But if it's possible to degrade it i solar-powered furnaces without any hazardous/toxic byproducts, it's already worth it. Bottles don't carry themselves to solar-powered furnaces. If we assume that they did (and plastic oceans in the pacific demonstrate otherwise), then we could target the much-easier problem of making plastics that are stable when dumped in a landfill.
    - Perz1val 2y ago
      So if I leave a bottle of water in summer inside a car, then will I be drinking plastic juice?
      - kombookcha 2y ago
        You already kinda do if you're drinking bottles of water left in the car for a long time, time+sun/heat/motion is how microplastics are made.
    - spacebanana7 2y ago
      I suppose the perfect bottle plastic would biodegrade under natural conditions after 5 years or so, but also biodegrade rapidly under enhanced conditions (e.g high temp, fungi). That way the lifespan of the contents wouldn't be limited by the bottle - minimising food waste - but we'd retain the ability to get rid of the bottle safely without huge landfills.
- goodpoint 2y ago
  > Nature does not have above normal temperature I wish.
  - Qwertious 2y ago
    Nature doesn't have a normal temperature. Some places hit 40 C regularly, others never go that high.
    - arghwhat 2y ago
      The highest recorded air temperature is 56.7°C, while the lowest is 89.2°C. That's a 145.9°C wide range.
- patates 2y ago
  > Nature does not have above normal temperature Depends on how much you dig I guess?
- panstromek 2y ago
  Some biologial processes can create impressive amount of heat. Haystacks can catch fire just from the internal heating.
jajko 2y ago
So keeping it a bit on the sun or closed car can instantly ruin/pollute ie packaged meat? Despite meat being eatable at least for another 12 hours. I love such things, but they need to be same or better on most if not all aspects than current ones, not in fashion: better for nature - check; but in these rather common situations they are much worse and can be actually hazard to humans - check.
- tkzed49 2y ago
  You store raw meat at temperatures that would degrade plastic for several hours, then eat it? There's a reason they call certain temperatures "the danger zone". I'd be more than willing to use a more degradable plastic for something that needs to get a chilled product from the meat department to my home.
ecjhdnc2025 2y ago
Most "bioplastics" like PLA want 60C or so; this is achievable in industrial composting (it's actually achievable in normal composting if you find an expert) but the process of getting and keeping the bioreactor to that temperature is slow. We'd need a lot of these things, so I hope society starts to build them. But the more I experiment with 3D printing, the more obvious it is that the problems include: - separating this stuff out in the first place so that you know what can be composted - parts fixed with non-biodegradable glues - dyes, pigments, plasticisers that aren't biodegradable either - difficulty reusing manufacturing waste Industrial 3D printing is going to be a bigger and bigger part of our plastics use over time, because it enables products to be iterated long before you reach the kind of economy of scale that supports injection moulding. This also cuts down on waste; shocking amounts of plastic goes directly to landfill because of high-scale unsold inventory. So a significant development would be actually improving the chances of reusing waste. But it's only a small part of that problem.
- usrusr 2y ago
  Isn't the whole biodegradability thing a bit of a red herring anyways? Just have a reasonably good waste collection system, then either incinerate (yay, dispatchable carbon neutral energy!) or landfill (yay, carbon capture and burial!) and call it a victory. The key benefit of plant based plastics is that no fossil hydrocarbons have been reintroduced back into the active cycle to make it.

Ekaros 2y ago

Nature does not have above normal temperature. And I think article talk about the also degrading when just tossed to nature...

pajko 2y ago
But if it's possible to degrade it i solar-powered furnaces without any hazardous/toxic byproducts, it's already worth it. Or if microorganisms could decompose the buried stuff. Also composting is an exothermic reaction, generating heat up to 60C, which is above normal temperature anyway. The question is how waterproof it is, can it get wet or store liquids.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Qwertious 2y ago
  >But if it's possible to degrade it i solar-powered furnaces without any hazardous/toxic byproducts, it's already worth it. Bottles don't carry themselves to solar-powered furnaces. If we assume that they did (and plastic oceans in the pacific demonstrate otherwise), then we could target the much-easier problem of making plastics that are stable when dumped in a landfill.
  - Perz1val 2y ago
    So if I leave a bottle of water in summer inside a car, then will I be drinking plastic juice?
    - kombookcha 2y ago
      You already kinda do if you're drinking bottles of water left in the car for a long time, time+sun/heat/motion is how microplastics are made.
  - spacebanana7 2y ago
    I suppose the perfect bottle plastic would biodegrade under natural conditions after 5 years or so, but also biodegrade rapidly under enhanced conditions (e.g high temp, fungi). That way the lifespan of the contents wouldn't be limited by the bottle - minimising food waste - but we'd retain the ability to get rid of the bottle safely without huge landfills.
goodpoint 2y ago
> Nature does not have above normal temperature I wish.
- Qwertious 2y ago
  Nature doesn't have a normal temperature. Some places hit 40 C regularly, others never go that high.
  - arghwhat 2y ago
    The highest recorded air temperature is 56.7°C, while the lowest is 89.2°C. That's a 145.9°C wide range.
patates 2y ago
> Nature does not have above normal temperature Depends on how much you dig I guess?
panstromek 2y ago
Some biologial processes can create impressive amount of heat. Haystacks can catch fire just from the internal heating.

jajko 2y ago

So keeping it a bit on the sun or closed car can instantly ruin/pollute ie packaged meat? Despite meat being eatable at least for another 12 hours. I love such things, but they need to be same or better on most if not all aspects than current ones, not in fashion: better for nature - check; but in these rather common situations they are much worse and can be actually hazard to humans - check.

tkzed49 2y ago
You store raw meat at temperatures that would degrade plastic for several hours, then eat it? There's a reason they call certain temperatures "the danger zone". I'd be more than willing to use a more degradable plastic for something that needs to get a chilled product from the meat department to my home.

ecjhdnc2025 2y ago

Most "bioplastics" like PLA want 60C or so; this is achievable in industrial composting (it's actually achievable in normal composting if you find an expert) but the process of getting and keeping the bioreactor to that temperature is slow. We'd need a lot of these things, so I hope society starts to build them. But the more I experiment with 3D printing, the more obvious it is that the problems include: - separating this stuff out in the first place so that you know what can be composted - parts fixed with non-biodegradable glues - dyes, pigments, plasticisers that aren't biodegradable either - difficulty reusing manufacturing waste Industrial 3D printing is going to be a bigger and bigger part of our plastics use over time, because it enables products to be iterated long before you reach the kind of economy of scale that supports injection moulding. This also cuts down on waste; shocking amounts of plastic goes directly to landfill because of high-scale unsold inventory. So a significant development would be actually improving the chances of reusing waste. But it's only a small part of that problem.

usrusr 2y ago
Isn't the whole biodegradability thing a bit of a red herring anyways? Just have a reasonably good waste collection system, then either incinerate (yay, dispatchable carbon neutral energy!) or landfill (yay, carbon capture and burial!) and call it a victory. The key benefit of plant based plastics is that no fossil hydrocarbons have been reintroduced back into the active cycle to make it.