7 ms·

Stalin, Eisenstein, Walt Disney and Ivan the Terrible (1992)

81 points by samclemens 2y ago

Eisenstein 2y ago
It shouldn't be too surprising that Eisenstein admired Disney's work. For those that haven't seen it, I highly recommend watching Eisenstein's 'Strike'. An overlooked masterpiece which was the birth of the montage. Here is a link (it is public domain): * https://youtu.be/Yw6aMqBjGKQ?si=HRXpOYZZleeSkV4C https://youtu.be/Yw6aMqBjGKQ?si=HRXpOYZZleeSkV4C
- baxtr 2y ago
  Nice username!
- csb6 2y ago
  Alexander Nevsky is another great movie that he directed. The Battle of the Ice was the prototype for a lot of epic movie battles.
thriftwy 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
neonate 2y ago
http://web.archive.org/web/20240625202720/https://www.cliomuse.com/stalin-disney-eisenstein--ivan-the-terrible.html http://web.archive.org/web/20240625202720/https://www.cliomu...
vgel 2y ago
Reading the transcript of Stalin, Molotov, etc's conversation with Eisenstein was really interesting. Even if you disagree with their analysis and what they're doing, it's clear they know the period very well--it's hard to imagine modern politicians speaking on history like that.
- ineedaj0b 2y ago
  I think there’s quite a few politicians and commentators who could give even handed overviews. Gotcha interviews and soundbites garner more clicks. Anyone with a solid mind would avoid speaking near any source that would ‘leak’ their opinions.
- pvg 2y ago
  It's hard to imagine a modern head of state incapable of delivering that level of basic national mythology/history. There's probably the occasional counterexample but this is common enough to regularly pop up in available transcripts of national leaders meeting to this day.
  - riehwvfbk 2y ago
    You don't follow the news much, do you? Good for you :)
- foobarian 2y ago
  The thing I found most interesting were the side-topic comments about former rulers and their politics. Some of it comes off very nationalistic.
xrd 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
Slava_Propanei 2y ago
[dead]
placebo 2y ago
"Eisenstein asked whether there were some more instructions regarding the film. Stalin. I am not giving you instructions but expressing the viewer's opinion." Yeah, right...
- rob74 2y ago
  "The viewer's opinion" (singular), not "the viewers' opinion" (plural). So he was only expressing his opinion as a viewer - not that that would have mattered less than any direct instructions... OTOH, the translation is not that good, so I'm not sure the distinction I mentioned is intentional. For instance, what does this phrase even mean: > Stalin pointed to Cherkasov that he had the capacity for incarnation and that we have still the capacity to incarnate the artist Khmelev. Plus mentioning various French kings called "Ludwig", which are actually "Louis" in English...
esther598 2y ago
[flagged]
azangru 2y ago
A caption to a figure in the article reads "Georgi Molotov ... 'the great survivor', was one of Stalin's key enforcers for decades". Wasn't Molotov's name Vyacheslav? [0] [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyacheslav_Molotov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyacheslav_Molotov
- gilleain 2y ago
  Perhaps they meant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Malenkov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Malenkov ? hmmm, except that does not look like Malenkov who does not seem to have worn glasses or had a moustache ..
  - simonebrunozzi 2y ago
    I thought the same. Not sure if this is correct or not.
  - dh2022 2y ago
    The guy in the picture to the left of Stalin is indeed Molotov, as the picture from Molotov's Wikipedia entry shows. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyacheslav_Molotov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyacheslav_Molotov
The_Colonel 2y ago
It's an interesting facet of Stalin's personality that he was a big movie nerd. Many of his "parties" ended with binge-watching movies with other high level party members (who were pretty much forced to be there).
topherjaynes 2y ago
Oh wow this threw me back to film school. There is a great book by Ester Leslie called Hollywood Flatlands: Animation, Critical Theory and the Avant-Garde that walks through the overlap in animation and the avant-garde movement. It's very in-depth read if you liked this article
throw4847285 2y ago
"Great artist admired other great artist." Not really breaking news. I think the work of Disney and his team of animators has long been recognized as brilliant. There's no need for the chip on the shoulder. The idea of Eisenstein as a live action animator is very cool though. I've only seen Battleship Potemkin, but even from that I see what the writer of this piece means. It took an admirer of animation to think that creatively about editing, and to make the move from realism to something more/less. Fun fact: my grandfather was a dyed in the wool commie, and he saw Battleship Potemkin probably 1,000 times. My grandmother could not understand how he could watch it over and over again, but even after one viewing, I get it. It's thrilling.

81 points by samclemens 2y ago

It shouldn't be too surprising that Eisenstein admired Disney's work. For those that haven't seen it, I highly recommend watching Eisenstein's 'Strike'. An overlooked masterpiece which was the birth of the montage. Here is a link (it is public domain): * https://youtu.be/Yw6aMqBjGKQ?si=HRXpOYZZleeSkV4C https://youtu.be/Yw6aMqBjGKQ?si=HRXpOYZZleeSkV4C

baxtr 2y ago
Nice username!
csb6 2y ago
Alexander Nevsky is another great movie that he directed. The Battle of the Ice was the prototype for a lot of epic movie battles.

thriftwy 2y ago

[flagged]

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

neonate 2y ago

http://web.archive.org/web/20240625202720/https://www.cliomuse.com/stalin-disney-eisenstein--ivan-the-terrible.html http://web.archive.org/web/20240625202720/https://www.cliomu...

vgel 2y ago

Reading the transcript of Stalin, Molotov, etc's conversation with Eisenstein was really interesting. Even if you disagree with their analysis and what they're doing, it's clear they know the period very well--it's hard to imagine modern politicians speaking on history like that.

ineedaj0b 2y ago
I think there’s quite a few politicians and commentators who could give even handed overviews. Gotcha interviews and soundbites garner more clicks. Anyone with a solid mind would avoid speaking near any source that would ‘leak’ their opinions.
pvg 2y ago
It's hard to imagine a modern head of state incapable of delivering that level of basic national mythology/history. There's probably the occasional counterexample but this is common enough to regularly pop up in available transcripts of national leaders meeting to this day.
- riehwvfbk 2y ago
  You don't follow the news much, do you? Good for you :)
foobarian 2y ago
The thing I found most interesting were the side-topic comments about former rulers and their politics. Some of it comes off very nationalistic.

xrd 2y ago

[flagged]

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Slava_Propanei 2y ago

[dead]

placebo 2y ago

"Eisenstein asked whether there were some more instructions regarding the film. Stalin. I am not giving you instructions but expressing the viewer's opinion." Yeah, right...

rob74 2y ago
"The viewer's opinion" (singular), not "the viewers' opinion" (plural). So he was only expressing his opinion as a viewer - not that that would have mattered less than any direct instructions... OTOH, the translation is not that good, so I'm not sure the distinction I mentioned is intentional. For instance, what does this phrase even mean: > Stalin pointed to Cherkasov that he had the capacity for incarnation and that we have still the capacity to incarnate the artist Khmelev. Plus mentioning various French kings called "Ludwig", which are actually "Louis" in English...

esther598 2y ago

[flagged]

azangru 2y ago

A caption to a figure in the article reads "Georgi Molotov ... 'the great survivor', was one of Stalin's key enforcers for decades". Wasn't Molotov's name Vyacheslav? [0] [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyacheslav_Molotov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyacheslav_Molotov

gilleain 2y ago
Perhaps they meant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Malenkov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Malenkov ? hmmm, except that does not look like Malenkov who does not seem to have worn glasses or had a moustache ..
- simonebrunozzi 2y ago
  I thought the same. Not sure if this is correct or not.
- dh2022 2y ago
  The guy in the picture to the left of Stalin is indeed Molotov, as the picture from Molotov's Wikipedia entry shows. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyacheslav_Molotov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyacheslav_Molotov

The_Colonel 2y ago

It's an interesting facet of Stalin's personality that he was a big movie nerd. Many of his "parties" ended with binge-watching movies with other high level party members (who were pretty much forced to be there).

topherjaynes 2y ago

Oh wow this threw me back to film school. There is a great book by Ester Leslie called Hollywood Flatlands: Animation, Critical Theory and the Avant-Garde that walks through the overlap in animation and the avant-garde movement. It's very in-depth read if you liked this article

throw4847285 2y ago

"Great artist admired other great artist." Not really breaking news. I think the work of Disney and his team of animators has long been recognized as brilliant. There's no need for the chip on the shoulder. The idea of Eisenstein as a live action animator is very cool though. I've only seen Battleship Potemkin, but even from that I see what the writer of this piece means. It took an admirer of animation to think that creatively about editing, and to make the move from realism to something more/less. Fun fact: my grandfather was a dyed in the wool commie, and he saw Battleship Potemkin probably 1,000 times. My grandmother could not understand how he could watch it over and over again, but even after one viewing, I get it. It's thrilling.