9 ms·
Why do I get the feeling that every article about MS is posted with the tone "Hey look guys, MS is doing something stoopid". The same tone seems to be missing w
by rkwz 14y ago
Why do I get the feeling that every article about MS is posted with the tone "Hey look guys, MS is doing something stoopid". The same tone seems to be missing when other tech companies are concerned.
- aerique 14y agoThis looks like a normal news submission to me. The comments aren't bad either, except for yours ;-)
- m0skit0 14y agoI don't think that "stoopid" is the word. It's more like "strange". Also probably you want to read more about M$ history (and software history) to know why hackers really don't like M$ above all other companies.
- brudgers 14y agoI've thought a lot about this over the past few years. I believe there are a couple of cultural factors which contribute to it. On the large scale, Apple's "I'm a Mac. I'm a PC," made Microsoft bashing socially acceptable in the general culture. The second is more subtle, but more applicable to HN. Microsoft is not a Silicon Valley company and it never was. One source of animosity that this has created is that it has been a powerful competitor to a great number of Silicon Valley startups. More deeply, as a bootstrapped company, it goes against the economic model upon which Silicon Valley's entire capital structure depends...YC cannot produce another Microsoft because YC companies take outside investment at day one. A startup which emulates Microsoft doesn't offer an opportunity to make early stage investors rich.
- rbn 14y agoI disagree with the 2nd paragraph. Amazon is not a SV company but the are loved by SV. I think the problem goes waayy back to the original ideological differences of Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. However one thing that might make SV loyalists tick is that the largest software company in the world is not in SV.
- kenjackson 14y agoBut there is no real Amazon competitor in SV -- at least not where they dominate -- merging product/delivery with web services.
- sigkill 14y agoBut lets be honest, Steve wasn't a paragon of virtue himself. Actually the more I read about him (just read the June Fast company article) the more I think he lets his emotions dictate his corporate actions. I mean, who ever publicly announces that they're starting a rival company in revenge for being kicked out? I like (todays) Bill Gates as a human being. I like (the last current build of ) Steve Jobs purely because of his marketing skills.
- AutoCorrect 14y agoI would add a third point to that: we've watched MS use their size and position to stifle and destroy good companies. Now, when MS does something that could cause them problems, we react with glee.
- brudgers 14y agoPeople don't bear Apple animosity for what they have done to RIM, or Google for what they have done to Nokia for the same reasons nobody hated Sun for what they did to DEC.
- mistermumble 14y agohttp://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20071023002351958 http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20071023002351... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_Documents http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_Documents
- MartinCron 14y agoMaybe it's not just the "what" but the "how"? The perception is that Apple stomped RIM into the ground fair and square, while Microsoft mortally wounded (then beloved) Netscape through anti-competitive bundling and partner manipulation? Google is every bit as much an existential threat to most small software companies now as Microsoft was at the height of its power, but we don't have any resonant stories of Google competitors being taken out unfairly.
- brudgers 14y agoLest we forget, Netscape was acquired by AOL for more than $4 billion. One can blame Microsoft for it's demise, but both the acquisition and the anti-trust suit occurred in the same year. In other words, despite Microsoft's actions, there was a solid exit on paper.
- mcantelon 14y agoMicrosoft also doesn't do much that is interesting. They tend to imitate and their imitations are seldom better, and are often worse, than the originals. The only moderately recent exception I can think of offhand is Kinect. Are there other innovations they've brought to market over recent years? Microsoft's research division does amazing things, of course, but I'm talking about products.
- brudgers 14y agoPowershell
- RandallBrown 14y agoI think Windows Phone is a pretty solid innovation on the smartphone front. It's UI isn't iPhone UI++ like Android, WebOS, and others. It's new and interesting. A lot of their living room entertainment stuff they've done with Xbox and Windows Media Center has been pretty cool. Not necessarily groundbreaking, but still neat.
- leeohsheeus 14y ago...and, by extension, Windows 8 and the Metro design language, which are pretty unique in the current tech landscape.
- jmcqk6 14y agoIn addition to the other examples mentioned, I would definitely call the F# and C# languages "interesting." I would also call their new approach to async "interesting." There are quite a few interesting things going on, but you don't find microsoft "interesting" you probably rarely hear about it.
- mcantelon 14y agoWhat's their new approach to async?
- tedunangst 14y ago
- JonnieCache 14y agoMost of the hacker animosity stems from MS' history of using underhand tactics to destroy FOSS and the web. Not compete with, but destroy at all costs. The ill-will this engendered in the community will probably never go away, and rightly so. It arguably set our industry back decades. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_Documents http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_Documents
- leeohsheeus 14y agoThe Microsoft of 1998 is not the Microsoft of 2012. Today's MS releases a tremendous amount of code under open source licenses - most recently, their entire web development stack (ASP.NET MVC, etc): http://aspnet.codeplex.com/ http://aspnet.codeplex.com/
- dredmorbius 14y agoYes, the Microsoft of 2012 does release a fair amount of code under Free Software licenses. It's even contributing directly to the Linux kernel. That said, substantial members of senior executive management, including specifically Steve Ballmer, were key in leading the dirty tricks campaigns against all competitors, from DR DOS to Novell to WordPerfect to Linux to Netscape to Sun to Google. Some of us have long memories. Microsoft have fallen long and hard from their late 1990s heyday, but they still haven't exhibited the cathartic rebirth of, say, IBM in the early 1990s. There is a reason the first Macintosh ad featured the hammer thrower smashing Big Brother's image on the screen (1984), and I can distinctly recall it feeling very odd to note ~1997-99 that IBM were positioning themselves as very, very strong champions of both Linux and Open Source (they liked the OS mantra better than Free Software). They did so, however, on the basis of a very detailed, high-level, senior-executive endorsed study into the competitive advantages of pursing just this course of action (Tim O'Reilly references this in Open Sources, it's sometimes known as the "Earthquake Document", as it literally shook the earth IBM was standing on), specifically targeting its perceived major competition from Sun (since neutralized entirely) and Microsoft (a looming and large threat, now largely castrated). Until such a time as Microsoft comes to a similar conclusion, and changes its fundamental business practices (from embrace, extend, and destroy) in a similar way, I'll continue to keep them on my enemies watchlist, if not necessarily at the top of that list. There are most definitely other entities I consider to be bigger threats, both inside and outside the tech landscape, today.
- gouranga 14y agoI posted this article on HN. There is an underlying tone in the community but some of us make a living thanks to Microsoft. I am impressed that they have done this, which is why I posted it.
- technomancy 14y agoI'd guess the fact that hackers are not often painfully forced to test software with products from other tech companies makes a big difference.