7 ms·

It's unclear to me from the tweets if anyone confirmed the driver removed his foot from the accelerator. I'd absolutely love to dump on Tesla, but people often

It's unclear to me from the tweets if anyone confirmed the driver removed his foot from the accelerator. I'd absolutely love to dump on Tesla, but people often do stupid things in panic situations.

XenophileJKO 2y ago
The other thing I also think about in these cases is that unlike an automatic transmission car, the regenerative breaking slows the car the same as light break application, so in regular driving you don't use it as much. Having driven a many different cars, I suspect without as much experience with manual transmissions or regenerative brakes, it is much more likely for a driver to panic stomp the gas.
CobaltFire 2y ago
The rear wheels locked. The rear brakes are far smaller than the front. I believe the rear motors are more powerful than the front. Therefore the smaller rear brakes were able to lock up the more powerful rear motor driven axle (there were ~50 foot skid marks from the rear tires). Why were the more powerful front brakes not able to overpower the weaker front motor? This is unacceptable engineering. Stop blaming the driver and apologizing for Tesla.
- firecall 2y ago
  The article is really not very clear is it! Did the driver have their foot hard down on the brake pedal? Were they using both feet and applying brake and accelerator at the same time? These seem like obvious basic questions that this motoring journalist has failed to ask. We will have to wait for keen YouTubers to answer these questions for us I guess LOL Such is the modern world!
  - romwell 2y ago
    Oh, the article is plenty clear. >Did the driver have their foot hard down on the brake pedal? Yes, this is how you get the skid marks 50 ft long. You can also hear it in the video. >Were they using both feet and applying brake and accelerator at the same time? No. The vehicle accelerated on its own, and wasn't responding to the steering controls as well while the unintended acceleration. Tesla's response was that "due to the terrain the accelerator may or may not disengage when the brake is depressed". >These seem like obvious basic questions that this motoring journalist has failed to ask. Because they have very obvious basic answers unless one is hell-bent on blaming the victim (who, by the way, has a driver license). >We will have to wait for keen YouTubers to answer these questions for us I guess LOL Indeed. Because Tesla has dissolved its PR department years ago, and won't answer to inquiries from the press. I'll wait for NHTSA to answer these questions, but you do you.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  Stop accepting Jalopnik as truthful. It's part of Gawker media empire and spews crack on EVs (esp. Tesla) every day.
ajross 2y ago
Indeed "Pedal Misapplication" is in fact a routine term of art[1]. Drivers hit the wrong pedal all the time when they get surprised. But of course this accident must be because it's a Tesla. [1] Went to Wikipedia to get a link; and indeed, it seems like the NHTA estimated in 2015 that it's responsible for 16k collisions per year: https://web.archive.org/web/20161226060428/https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-safety-advisory-reducing-crashes-caused-pedal-error https://web.archive.org/web/20161226060428/https://www.nhtsa...
- shkkmo 2y ago
  How does accidentally stomping the gas instead of the brake lock up the rear brakes to leave a 50ft skid?
  - ajross 2y ago
    Because you then deliberately stomp the brakes to stop the car you forgot you commanded to accelerate. Again, this happens all the time, and no one cares when it's a grandpa in a F-150.
  - rasz 2y ago
    Stomp on both, car breaks hard by locking all tires. Blame "Tesla bug" because it didnt stop in 50 feet ... after you sped up by max accelerating for 8 seconds flat to ~80mph.
- stefan_ 2y ago
  What makes the rear wheels lock except the brakes? Do Teslas have separate front rear brakes like a bicycle?
  - cyberax 2y ago
    All modern cars in the US have an ability to modulate the braking on each wheel, via ABS/ESP systems.
    - jjav 2y ago
pdpi 2y ago
"due to the terrain the accelerator may or may not disengage when the brake is depressed" There might've been some amount of driver error involved, sure, but that statement sends shivers down my spine. Either of "the accelerator always/never disengages when the brake is depressed" is sane. The idea that it may or may not, depending on external factors outside the driver's control, is just plain terrifying.
- dmix 2y ago
  You’re taking lawyer weasel words at face value We should probably wait for some fact checking before getting outraged
- theteapot 2y ago
  My car's accelerator doesn't disengage when the breaks are pressed. I've never owned a vehicle that behaves like that. If my car was smart enough to sometimes disengage the throttle when I have then break also engaged I can't see a case where this would be less safe than never doing it. If I was intentionally trying to wreak my car or do some weird stunt by simultaneously engaging the break and throttle and the car sometimes tried to stop me I guess it would be annoying.
  - jordanb 2y ago
    ICE cars are designed such that the brakes can always overpower the engine. If you put both pedals on the wall the car will not move. Because electric cars have phenomenal torque, it's not possible to make brakes big enough to stop the car against full application of the accelerator. So they have to have disconnects.
    - KennyBlanken 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - theteapot 2y ago
      Is there a regulation that states breaks must be able to overpower engine when both are fully engaged - Genuinely asking?
firecall 2y ago
Exactly. That’s what is not clear. Traditional ICE cars with auto transmissions allow you to do this, by design. But you’d have to have a front wheel drive car and engage the parking brake / handbrake to lock the rear wheels like that. Which is not possible in a Tesla. For a Tesla to have locked the rear wheels whilst the front wheels continue to drag the car forward, does, on the surface seem like a failure in software or electronics somewhere. I should test what happens in my Tesla :-) (Side note: I wish Musk would just leave Tesla so we can all feel less shitty about owning them :-/ )
arh68 2y ago
It's unclear to me which axle even locked up. How would the driver even know? The witness marks would be flat spots, but no photo evidence is given. For all I know, the skid marks are from rear tires burning out. The article claims the driver mentioned "unresponsive steering", but that doesn't make much sense as the vehicle pretty clearly follows the road (to the right). It's not like one would turn at the bottom of the dip (into the ditch). I can't blame anyone with such little information.

It's unclear to me from the tweets if anyone confirmed the driver removed his foot from the accelerator. I'd absolutely love to dump on Tesla, but people often do stupid things in panic situations.

XenophileJKO 2y ago

The other thing I also think about in these cases is that unlike an automatic transmission car, the regenerative breaking slows the car the same as light break application, so in regular driving you don't use it as much. Having driven a many different cars, I suspect without as much experience with manual transmissions or regenerative brakes, it is much more likely for a driver to panic stomp the gas.

CobaltFire 2y ago

The rear wheels locked. The rear brakes are far smaller than the front. I believe the rear motors are more powerful than the front. Therefore the smaller rear brakes were able to lock up the more powerful rear motor driven axle (there were ~50 foot skid marks from the rear tires). Why were the more powerful front brakes not able to overpower the weaker front motor? This is unacceptable engineering. Stop blaming the driver and apologizing for Tesla.

firecall 2y ago
The article is really not very clear is it! Did the driver have their foot hard down on the brake pedal? Were they using both feet and applying brake and accelerator at the same time? These seem like obvious basic questions that this motoring journalist has failed to ask. We will have to wait for keen YouTubers to answer these questions for us I guess LOL Such is the modern world!
- romwell 2y ago
  Oh, the article is plenty clear. >Did the driver have their foot hard down on the brake pedal? Yes, this is how you get the skid marks 50 ft long. You can also hear it in the video. >Were they using both feet and applying brake and accelerator at the same time? No. The vehicle accelerated on its own, and wasn't responding to the steering controls as well while the unintended acceleration. Tesla's response was that "due to the terrain the accelerator may or may not disengage when the brake is depressed". >These seem like obvious basic questions that this motoring journalist has failed to ask. Because they have very obvious basic answers unless one is hell-bent on blaming the victim (who, by the way, has a driver license). >We will have to wait for keen YouTubers to answer these questions for us I guess LOL Indeed. Because Tesla has dissolved its PR department years ago, and won't answer to inquiries from the press. I'll wait for NHTSA to answer these questions, but you do you.
dzhiurgis 2y ago
Stop accepting Jalopnik as truthful. It's part of Gawker media empire and spews crack on EVs (esp. Tesla) every day.

ajross 2y ago

Indeed "Pedal Misapplication" is in fact a routine term of art[1]. Drivers hit the wrong pedal all the time when they get surprised. But of course this accident must be because it's a Tesla. [1] Went to Wikipedia to get a link; and indeed, it seems like the NHTA estimated in 2015 that it's responsible for 16k collisions per year: https://web.archive.org/web/20161226060428/https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-safety-advisory-reducing-crashes-caused-pedal-error https://web.archive.org/web/20161226060428/https://www.nhtsa...

shkkmo 2y ago
How does accidentally stomping the gas instead of the brake lock up the rear brakes to leave a 50ft skid?
- ajross 2y ago
  Because you then deliberately stomp the brakes to stop the car you forgot you commanded to accelerate. Again, this happens all the time, and no one cares when it's a grandpa in a F-150.
- rasz 2y ago
  Stomp on both, car breaks hard by locking all tires. Blame "Tesla bug" because it didnt stop in 50 feet ... after you sped up by max accelerating for 8 seconds flat to ~80mph.
stefan_ 2y ago
What makes the rear wheels lock except the brakes? Do Teslas have separate front rear brakes like a bicycle?
- cyberax 2y ago
  All modern cars in the US have an ability to modulate the braking on each wheel, via ABS/ESP systems.
  - jjav 2y ago

pdpi 2y ago

"due to the terrain the accelerator may or may not disengage when the brake is depressed" There might've been some amount of driver error involved, sure, but that statement sends shivers down my spine. Either of "the accelerator always/never disengages when the brake is depressed" is sane. The idea that it may or may not, depending on external factors outside the driver's control, is just plain terrifying.

dmix 2y ago
You’re taking lawyer weasel words at face value We should probably wait for some fact checking before getting outraged
theteapot 2y ago
My car's accelerator doesn't disengage when the breaks are pressed. I've never owned a vehicle that behaves like that. If my car was smart enough to sometimes disengage the throttle when I have then break also engaged I can't see a case where this would be less safe than never doing it. If I was intentionally trying to wreak my car or do some weird stunt by simultaneously engaging the break and throttle and the car sometimes tried to stop me I guess it would be annoying.
- jordanb 2y ago
  ICE cars are designed such that the brakes can always overpower the engine. If you put both pedals on the wall the car will not move. Because electric cars have phenomenal torque, it's not possible to make brakes big enough to stop the car against full application of the accelerator. So they have to have disconnects.
  - KennyBlanken 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - theteapot 2y ago
    Is there a regulation that states breaks must be able to overpower engine when both are fully engaged - Genuinely asking?

firecall 2y ago

Exactly. That’s what is not clear. Traditional ICE cars with auto transmissions allow you to do this, by design. But you’d have to have a front wheel drive car and engage the parking brake / handbrake to lock the rear wheels like that. Which is not possible in a Tesla. For a Tesla to have locked the rear wheels whilst the front wheels continue to drag the car forward, does, on the surface seem like a failure in software or electronics somewhere. I should test what happens in my Tesla :-) (Side note: I wish Musk would just leave Tesla so we can all feel less shitty about owning them :-/ )

arh68 2y ago

It's unclear to me which axle even locked up. How would the driver even know? The witness marks would be flat spots, but no photo evidence is given. For all I know, the skid marks are from rear tires burning out. The article claims the driver mentioned "unresponsive steering", but that doesn't make much sense as the vehicle pretty clearly follows the road (to the right). It's not like one would turn at the bottom of the dip (into the ditch). I can't blame anyone with such little information.