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There's a problem with driving like this. The whole time that a driver is checking their mirror(s) to look behind them, attempting to ward off a crash that the

by ssl-3 2y ago

There's a problem with driving like this. The whole time that a driver is checking their mirror(s) to look behind them, attempting to ward off a crash that they cannot actually control, and that may not even have the potential to happen, they're NOT slowing down for the real observed conditions ahead of them that DO warrant slowing down or stopping for and that they can control. I mean: Suppose a driver is going down the road at 25MPH and sees a kid run into the street chasing a ball, necessitating a hard stop. Which of the following should the driver do? A) Stop. Hard. Now. Remove as much kinetic energy from the problem as possible, as soon as possible. B) Sound the horn and proceed through the kid; the kid should know better and Darwinism is more important than anything else. C) Look around, check mirrors, and spend some time (while still travelling at 25MPH) attempting to triage whether it is better to hit the kid, run off the side of road, switch to F1 mode and neatly drive around all moving obstacles, stop hard, or do something else? The only correct answer here is A. It is the driver's job to avoid running into people, and to stay on the road, and to remain in control of their own vehicle, and braking sooner is more effective at accomplishing this than braking later is. (This applies to the drivers of any cars that may be seen in the rearview mirror, too: It's their job to avoid hitting the car in front of them even if it is suddenly stopping, and to never follow so closely that this would ever be a problem for them to begin with.)

toast0 2y ago
Usually you can do things in this order: a) brake hard b) observe forward and rearward c) modulate brake application as appropriate d) go to b Sometimes you might add steering inputs. Depends on the situation. It doesn't take long to go from 25 mph to 0 mph though, so you may not have time to loop.
gnicholas 2y ago
> The whole time that a driver is checking their mirror(s) to look behind them, attempting to ward off a crash that they cannot actually control I didn't suggest that someone drive around with their eyes on their mirror the whole time. I only pointed out that before hard braking, I will check my mirror at the same time. If a kid ran into the street, I'd brake hard regardless since the consequence of a forward collision is terrible. You'll notice the scenario I described above, which is much more common than kids running into the street, is a light turning yellow. Your hypo with stylized answer choices is one that anyone would pass with flying colors, and it's disingenuous to suggest that someone posing my question would "look around, check mirrors, and spend some time attempting to triage". If someone poses a common dilemma with a balancing of harms, it's facile to respond with a clear-cut hypo and then make it sound like the person wouldn't know what to do in that circumstance.
- ssl-3 2y ago
  The decision of whether to proceed through a yellow light or whether to stop also has nothing to do with whatever may or may not be seen in the rearview mirror. I mean: A driver is approaching an intersection with a yellow light, indicating that it is about to change state. Should the driver: A) Look where they're going B) Look somewhere else entirely
  - toast0 2y ago
    Sure, if you approach an intersection with a yellow light, you should stop. However, the situation is you approach an intersection with a green light, and then it turns yellow. You should stop, if you have enough room to stop and it is safe to do so. If the vehicle behind you is unlikely to stop, it is not safe to stop. You can't tell if the vehicle behind you is likely to stop by looking ahead of you. At the same time, I'm assuming it's safe to proceed through the intersection given the light was recently green. If it's not safe to proceed, you should not proceed regardless of the light. Driving with other road users is all about considering the likely actions of other road users, observing and reacting. Sometimes that means you need to look in multiple directions.
    - ssl-3 2y ago
      Our traffic rules are set by laws. There is no law requiring a driver to check their mirrors before stopping for a traffic signal. Meanwhile: There are many, many laws requiring a driver to not run into the car that is in front of them, and requiring them to avoid doing things like tailgating that increase the risk of this happening.
      - gnicholas 2y ago
        > There is no law requiring a driver to check their mirrors before stopping for a traffic signal. There are plenty of things that are not required by law that are nonetheless a good idea. Also, no one (other than you) ever said anything about checking multiple "mirrors". I referred to checking your mirror (singular), which was a reference to the windshield-mounted rear view mirror. There would be no reason to check the side view mirrors, which wouldn't tell me anything about whether it's safe to stop.

by ssl-3 2y ago

toast0 2y ago

Usually you can do things in this order: a) brake hard b) observe forward and rearward c) modulate brake application as appropriate d) go to b Sometimes you might add steering inputs. Depends on the situation. It doesn't take long to go from 25 mph to 0 mph though, so you may not have time to loop.

gnicholas 2y ago

> The whole time that a driver is checking their mirror(s) to look behind them, attempting to ward off a crash that they cannot actually control I didn't suggest that someone drive around with their eyes on their mirror the whole time. I only pointed out that before hard braking, I will check my mirror at the same time. If a kid ran into the street, I'd brake hard regardless since the consequence of a forward collision is terrible. You'll notice the scenario I described above, which is much more common than kids running into the street, is a light turning yellow. Your hypo with stylized answer choices is one that anyone would pass with flying colors, and it's disingenuous to suggest that someone posing my question would "look around, check mirrors, and spend some time attempting to triage". If someone poses a common dilemma with a balancing of harms, it's facile to respond with a clear-cut hypo and then make it sound like the person wouldn't know what to do in that circumstance.

ssl-3 2y ago
The decision of whether to proceed through a yellow light or whether to stop also has nothing to do with whatever may or may not be seen in the rearview mirror. I mean: A driver is approaching an intersection with a yellow light, indicating that it is about to change state. Should the driver: A) Look where they're going B) Look somewhere else entirely
- toast0 2y ago
  Sure, if you approach an intersection with a yellow light, you should stop. However, the situation is you approach an intersection with a green light, and then it turns yellow. You should stop, if you have enough room to stop and it is safe to do so. If the vehicle behind you is unlikely to stop, it is not safe to stop. You can't tell if the vehicle behind you is likely to stop by looking ahead of you. At the same time, I'm assuming it's safe to proceed through the intersection given the light was recently green. If it's not safe to proceed, you should not proceed regardless of the light. Driving with other road users is all about considering the likely actions of other road users, observing and reacting. Sometimes that means you need to look in multiple directions.
  - ssl-3 2y ago
    Our traffic rules are set by laws. There is no law requiring a driver to check their mirrors before stopping for a traffic signal. Meanwhile: There are many, many laws requiring a driver to not run into the car that is in front of them, and requiring them to avoid doing things like tailgating that increase the risk of this happening.
    - gnicholas 2y ago
      > There is no law requiring a driver to check their mirrors before stopping for a traffic signal. There are plenty of things that are not required by law that are nonetheless a good idea. Also, no one (other than you) ever said anything about checking multiple "mirrors". I referred to checking your mirror (singular), which was a reference to the windshield-mounted rear view mirror. There would be no reason to check the side view mirrors, which wouldn't tell me anything about whether it's safe to stop.