4 ms·

Luckily none of the narrative here is about zero drownings. Or more precisely, people will express targeting zero drowning, but they're not making the logical

Luckily none of the narrative here is about zero drownings. Or more precisely, people will express targeting zero drowning, but they're not making the logical jump you're pointing at. The device in the article is someone pragmatic, lifeguard situation in most places is pragmatic, there would need to be a crazy shift to get people to agree to a more absolute stance.

thaumasiotes 2y ago
> Luckily none of the narrative here is about zero drownings. > Or more precisely, people will express targeting zero drowning, but they're not making the logical jump you're pointing at. Um, compare this comment, left hours before yours: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40779917 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40779917 > Fewer and fewer places to swim, more and more places just made everything a wading pool or a splash park to reduce liability, and after a generation of this there is an undersupply of people who can teach others to swim. Now some municipalities in my area are trying to ban swimming in open water.
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  From the same comment: > They closed all the pools to save money It comes down to economics. I share the commenter's assessment that there might be fewer places to swim than before, but I think it also comes from fewer people interested in swimming in the first place, which creates the vicious circle. To draw a parralel, there's also fewer skate rinks in my region, ski resorts also closed in significant numbers. There's just not enough demand to justify the cost, and while lowering the requirements could partially help, I don't see it working even mid-term, and certainly not long term. On liability, I'd suspect that's not the real issue (is the town actually liable if you drown on your own swimming (= with a swimsuit and clear intent) in an unmarked body of water ?) and it might be more on the image and keeping away some demographics. Basically the same level of care as forbidding RC toys in parks.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  I would never own a swimming pool due to the ginormous sums in liability judgments. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/steilacoom-to-pay-15-million-after-boy-drowns-at-summer-camp/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/steilacoom-to-pay-... https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/jury-awards-13-million-to-woman-who-fell-on-seattle-sidewalk/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/jury-awards-13-mil...
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    I can't read the first article, but judging from the second: > The sidewalk is “perennially covered in water and algae,” according to the complaint. Other Queen Anne residents testified in court that they had also fallen at this location. It reads to me like the sidewalk was a public danger, the building owners were under the hook to maintain it but never cared, until literally getting sued. What am I missing ?
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      Maybe watching one's step?
      - makeitdouble 2y ago
        I get the feeling that people would react differently if it was related to cars. For instance a plane of rolling rocks right in a corner that would screw with tire grip and have several cars fall into the valley because of it. Would you see it as an issue with drivers not being skilled enough to keep control under adverse conditions ? Or request the maintainer of the road to do its job and fix it ?
        WalterBright 2y ago
        There was an incident where a driver drove through a barrier and onto a bridge that was out, and crashed. Google maps directed him across the bridge. Who was at fault there? A basic tenet of driving is you should be looking where you're going. That said, streets should be made reasonably safe because there are always drivers who don't pay attention. But that doesn't mean we should pay those negligent drivers. As for the sidewalk, the city should have forced a fix for it. That's a separate issue from paying the stepper.

thaumasiotes 2y ago

> Luckily none of the narrative here is about zero drownings. > Or more precisely, people will express targeting zero drowning, but they're not making the logical jump you're pointing at. Um, compare this comment, left hours before yours: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40779917 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40779917 > Fewer and fewer places to swim, more and more places just made everything a wading pool or a splash park to reduce liability, and after a generation of this there is an undersupply of people who can teach others to swim. Now some municipalities in my area are trying to ban swimming in open water.

makeitdouble 2y ago
From the same comment: > They closed all the pools to save money It comes down to economics. I share the commenter's assessment that there might be fewer places to swim than before, but I think it also comes from fewer people interested in swimming in the first place, which creates the vicious circle. To draw a parralel, there's also fewer skate rinks in my region, ski resorts also closed in significant numbers. There's just not enough demand to justify the cost, and while lowering the requirements could partially help, I don't see it working even mid-term, and certainly not long term. On liability, I'd suspect that's not the real issue (is the town actually liable if you drown on your own swimming (= with a swimsuit and clear intent) in an unmarked body of water ?) and it might be more on the image and keeping away some demographics. Basically the same level of care as forbidding RC toys in parks.
WalterBright 2y ago
I would never own a swimming pool due to the ginormous sums in liability judgments. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/steilacoom-to-pay-15-million-after-boy-drowns-at-summer-camp/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/steilacoom-to-pay-... https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/jury-awards-13-million-to-woman-who-fell-on-seattle-sidewalk/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/jury-awards-13-mil...
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  I can't read the first article, but judging from the second: > The sidewalk is “perennially covered in water and algae,” according to the complaint. Other Queen Anne residents testified in court that they had also fallen at this location. It reads to me like the sidewalk was a public danger, the building owners were under the hook to maintain it but never cared, until literally getting sued. What am I missing ?
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    Maybe watching one's step?
    - makeitdouble 2y ago
      I get the feeling that people would react differently if it was related to cars. For instance a plane of rolling rocks right in a corner that would screw with tire grip and have several cars fall into the valley because of it. Would you see it as an issue with drivers not being skilled enough to keep control under adverse conditions ? Or request the maintainer of the road to do its job and fix it ?
      - WalterBright 2y ago
        There was an incident where a driver drove through a barrier and onto a bridge that was out, and crashed. Google maps directed him across the bridge. Who was at fault there? A basic tenet of driving is you should be looking where you're going. That said, streets should be made reasonably safe because there are always drivers who don't pay attention. But that doesn't mean we should pay those negligent drivers. As for the sidewalk, the city should have forced a fix for it. That's a separate issue from paying the stepper.