4 ms·

I'm not the target market for Windows, haven't been for a while. But I genuinely cannot figure out what Microsoft's vision for Windows 11 is. Or if they even

by Syonyk 2y ago

I'm not the target market for Windows, haven't been for a while. But I genuinely cannot figure out what Microsoft's vision for Windows 11 is. Or if they even have one beyond "idk, shove crap in, meet OKR, get promotion... maybe?" For a while, it seemed like they were focused on making sure that they could link as much of your activity on your computer to you, as a person - witness the ever-increasing challenge of an offline-only account, which means the value of knowing the email address of the signed in user is substantial. And then they embedded ad delivery as a first class participant in the platform - the sort of crap that used to be common from people who installed Bonzai Dancer Cursor Free or such is now literally part of the OS. ... and then it's just gone weird. AI with Copilot, Recall, etc. There doesn't appear to be a coherent vision of what it is, beyond a place to shovel crap, deliver unwanted applications (that they get paid to shove at people, presumably), and install lots of updates. Linux has problems, but there are no shortage of distros that just run apps, without delivering all your behavioral surplus up for collection, and that's what (IMO) an OS should be. Windows 11, from the outside, doesn't look like it's serving me. Except in the sense that it's focused on "serving me to Microsoft for further subversion of my will." ... and apparently Windows will now orange screen? Last time someone offered to let me touch a Windows machine, it orange screened in protest before I could even touch anything. At least the feeling is mutual.

bee_rider 2y ago
Probably incorrect conspiracy theory: with the success of Azure and also due to basic common sense, anyone inside MS that gives even the smallest shit about OS quality is a huge Linux fan. But, they have this awful legacy OS dragging them down, they can’t get rid of it because of various contracts and general shareholder expectations. They added as much Linux to it as they could really get away with, and their only good program (VSCode) has been ported and works perfectly fine on Linux, so things are mostly looking OK. The only thing left to do is to tank Windows and get rid of that legacy support burden once and for all.
- keyringlight 2y ago
  I think it's that, plus following where the money is coming from. While it's nigh-impossible to get retail customers to pay for windows and they want to get enterprise used to the idea of bringing everything into their 365 services, windows will be seen as a loss leader for other parts of the business, which includes advertising. Similarly I think google's purchase of doubleclick had a large influence over the years, android and chrome were in part ventures to present their ads.
Dalewyn 2y ago
>But I genuinely cannot figure out what Microsoft's vision for Windows 11 is. An operating system for the common man (and hopefully a subscription revenue inlet). We need to acknowledge that cloud backups are a good thing for most people, we're talking people who otherwise never take backups no matter what and then cry when they inevitably lose their data. The only problems here are OneDrive is absolute roasted garbage with how it actually executes the concept and Microsoft account integration is far too fucking obnoxious.
- utensil4778 2y ago
  I run a cloud backup service. Cloud backups are good for you, the user. Therefore, I have the right and moral obligation to break into your computer and upload all of your data to my own servers without your knowledge or consent.
Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
> But I genuinely cannot figure out what Microsoft's vision for Windows 11 is. Or if they even have one beyond "idk, shove crap in, meet OKR, get promotion... maybe?" 100% agreed I can't figure out who MS's target audience is for Windows now. They're losing marketshare to Apple in the casual home user market. Heck, based on my last two jobs, even developers are switching to MacBook, though I acknowledge that that's confirmation bias. Technical users are happily switching to Linux or Mac. That leaves who else? Gamers? They're still stuck on Windows depending on the games they play. Anything written in a cross-platform like Unity is fine, and Proton is getting better and better, and now even many anti-cheat software has a native Linux client, but some major games with proprietary engines still struggle under Linux. Hopefully more games start getting native Steam Deck support, which ends up making them Linux native. But like...how many customers is MS going to burn for short-term gains?
o11c 2y ago
> figure out what Microsoft's vision for Windows 11 is Never attribute to stupidity what can better be explained by malice. Hanlon's razor hangs a lot of weight on that "adequately". We know how valuable bulk data collection is, so why would Microsoft ever not mine it?
- ranger_danger 2y ago
  you got it the other way round there, stupid :p
squarefoot 2y ago
> But I genuinely cannot figure out what Microsoft's vision for Windows 11 is. I wondered that also, before WSL. After WSL I think they're squeezing every penny out of Windows while preparing to transition to a hybrid OS which over time could become more and more similar to Linux, except for some MS closed source sauce (module, library, driver, ...) that would make some very popular app developed under it not run, or run slower|crippled on real Linux.
DaoVeles 2y ago
A question I ask of a lot of thinking is "What is your end game? Do you have even one?". Not saying you need one but it is a helpful question to get some context. Regarding Win 11, this looks like thinking towards the next quarters engagement metrics. Who knows what change will occur for the next quarter?
Bluestein 2y ago
Windows is no longer an OS. It's a marketing platform with a "captive" audience.-

by Syonyk 2y ago

bee_rider 2y ago

Probably incorrect conspiracy theory: with the success of Azure and also due to basic common sense, anyone inside MS that gives even the smallest shit about OS quality is a huge Linux fan. But, they have this awful legacy OS dragging them down, they can’t get rid of it because of various contracts and general shareholder expectations. They added as much Linux to it as they could really get away with, and their only good program (VSCode) has been ported and works perfectly fine on Linux, so things are mostly looking OK. The only thing left to do is to tank Windows and get rid of that legacy support burden once and for all.

keyringlight 2y ago
I think it's that, plus following where the money is coming from. While it's nigh-impossible to get retail customers to pay for windows and they want to get enterprise used to the idea of bringing everything into their 365 services, windows will be seen as a loss leader for other parts of the business, which includes advertising. Similarly I think google's purchase of doubleclick had a large influence over the years, android and chrome were in part ventures to present their ads.

Dalewyn 2y ago

>But I genuinely cannot figure out what Microsoft's vision for Windows 11 is. An operating system for the common man (and hopefully a subscription revenue inlet). We need to acknowledge that cloud backups are a good thing for most people, we're talking people who otherwise never take backups no matter what and then cry when they inevitably lose their data. The only problems here are OneDrive is absolute roasted garbage with how it actually executes the concept and Microsoft account integration is far too fucking obnoxious.

utensil4778 2y ago
I run a cloud backup service. Cloud backups are good for you, the user. Therefore, I have the right and moral obligation to break into your computer and upload all of your data to my own servers without your knowledge or consent.

Sohcahtoa82 2y ago

> But I genuinely cannot figure out what Microsoft's vision for Windows 11 is. Or if they even have one beyond "idk, shove crap in, meet OKR, get promotion... maybe?" 100% agreed I can't figure out who MS's target audience is for Windows now. They're losing marketshare to Apple in the casual home user market. Heck, based on my last two jobs, even developers are switching to MacBook, though I acknowledge that that's confirmation bias. Technical users are happily switching to Linux or Mac. That leaves who else? Gamers? They're still stuck on Windows depending on the games they play. Anything written in a cross-platform like Unity is fine, and Proton is getting better and better, and now even many anti-cheat software has a native Linux client, but some major games with proprietary engines still struggle under Linux. Hopefully more games start getting native Steam Deck support, which ends up making them Linux native. But like...how many customers is MS going to burn for short-term gains?

o11c 2y ago

> figure out what Microsoft's vision for Windows 11 is Never attribute to stupidity what can better be explained by malice. Hanlon's razor hangs a lot of weight on that "adequately". We know how valuable bulk data collection is, so why would Microsoft ever not mine it?

ranger_danger 2y ago
you got it the other way round there, stupid :p

squarefoot 2y ago

> But I genuinely cannot figure out what Microsoft's vision for Windows 11 is. I wondered that also, before WSL. After WSL I think they're squeezing every penny out of Windows while preparing to transition to a hybrid OS which over time could become more and more similar to Linux, except for some MS closed source sauce (module, library, driver, ...) that would make some very popular app developed under it not run, or run slower|crippled on real Linux.

DaoVeles 2y ago

A question I ask of a lot of thinking is "What is your end game? Do you have even one?". Not saying you need one but it is a helpful question to get some context. Regarding Win 11, this looks like thinking towards the next quarters engagement metrics. Who knows what change will occur for the next quarter?

Bluestein 2y ago

Windows is no longer an OS. It's a marketing platform with a "captive" audience.-