4 ms·

NFC doesn't necessarily create any additional e-waste. In Chicago we have an NFC system, and people typically just link their phone to their account and use tha

NFC doesn't necessarily create any additional e-waste. In Chicago we have an NFC system, and people typically just link their phone to their account and use that to pay. I still use a physical card - so that I have a backup option in case something happens to my phone - but even there the volume of waste is trivial. I've had my current transit card for ages, and it doesn't expire until 2037. It's possible that the only technological decision I've made that generated less e-waste was deciding to splurge on a mechanical watch instead of a quartz model.

hgomersall 2y ago
Well, yes, but the article is about a disposable nfc ticket.
- bunderbunder 2y ago
  Those are more for single rides by people who rarely or never use the transit system. I've had the same Carte Opus for years and just bring it with me and refill whenever I visit Montreal. And the disposable paper cards are being phased out. I'm not sure when the rollout will be, but Montreal is currently working on upgrading the system to allow people to just tap-to-pay at the turnstiles using their phones or compatible credit and debit cards. Which is not something that you could do with a QR system. I don't know that anything is inherently wrong with QR codes, but they do seem to be a choice that's more appropriate for countries like China where the existing electronic payment infrastructure uses QR codes. In North America, by contrast, things have generally settled on NFC, and I think that that reason alone probably makes NFC the better option for North American transit systems.
  - efreak 2y ago
    > Montreal is currently working on upgrading the system to allow people to just tap-to-pay at the turnstiles using their phones or compatible credit and debit cards. > Which is not something that you could do with a QR system I've got several apps that display QR codes on the screen for an external reader. One of them is for my health insurance id card (a simple 10 digit number), another shows my COVID vaccination status (this one is complicated, and I'm not sure why they used a QR code for it. It must include batch identification and other information given the size)
    - bunderbunder 2y ago
      By tap-to-pay, I mean you need no special apps, you need no special accounts, any of that. You can pay with any physical credit or debit card that supports tap-to-pay, or you can use any credit or debit card you have loaded into your phone. With a QR code like that, people still need to install an app, set up an account, etc. It's just a lot more friction. In cities where I can tap-to-pay, getting set up to ride a bus or train for the first time takes literally zero time; I'm already set up. If I need anything special - apps, accounts, system-specific QR codes, etc - then the setup time instantly goes up to a minimum of 10 minutes. It's a relatively large barrier to entry for infrequent riders, and ultimately serves to discourage use of public transit.
      - hgomersall 2y ago
        Really? Setting up contactless payment is quicker than having a QR code image? I use QR codes on the UK train system and I don't have any special apps. It seems to integrate with Google wallet too, which surprised me.
- rswail 2y ago
  On rail systems with gates, these disposable "ultralite" RFID tickets are usually put through the old slot that used to take magentic tickets. Exit gates usually capture the ticket on exit when it has been used up (ie single journeys, or after the number of trips encoded on the ticket). These can (and are) recycled numerous times.
- rswail 2y ago
  The point of the disposables is that they use the same technology (NFC/RFID) as the more robust long term multi-use NFC cards. So if you're replacing an existing magnetic system, you can reuse the magnetic transports (belts/motors etc) for single use, including capture-at-exit and recycling for single journeys, while also adopting the NFC for multiple use.

hgomersall 2y ago

Well, yes, but the article is about a disposable nfc ticket.

bunderbunder 2y ago
Those are more for single rides by people who rarely or never use the transit system. I've had the same Carte Opus for years and just bring it with me and refill whenever I visit Montreal. And the disposable paper cards are being phased out. I'm not sure when the rollout will be, but Montreal is currently working on upgrading the system to allow people to just tap-to-pay at the turnstiles using their phones or compatible credit and debit cards. Which is not something that you could do with a QR system. I don't know that anything is inherently wrong with QR codes, but they do seem to be a choice that's more appropriate for countries like China where the existing electronic payment infrastructure uses QR codes. In North America, by contrast, things have generally settled on NFC, and I think that that reason alone probably makes NFC the better option for North American transit systems.
- efreak 2y ago
  > Montreal is currently working on upgrading the system to allow people to just tap-to-pay at the turnstiles using their phones or compatible credit and debit cards. > Which is not something that you could do with a QR system I've got several apps that display QR codes on the screen for an external reader. One of them is for my health insurance id card (a simple 10 digit number), another shows my COVID vaccination status (this one is complicated, and I'm not sure why they used a QR code for it. It must include batch identification and other information given the size)
  - bunderbunder 2y ago
    By tap-to-pay, I mean you need no special apps, you need no special accounts, any of that. You can pay with any physical credit or debit card that supports tap-to-pay, or you can use any credit or debit card you have loaded into your phone. With a QR code like that, people still need to install an app, set up an account, etc. It's just a lot more friction. In cities where I can tap-to-pay, getting set up to ride a bus or train for the first time takes literally zero time; I'm already set up. If I need anything special - apps, accounts, system-specific QR codes, etc - then the setup time instantly goes up to a minimum of 10 minutes. It's a relatively large barrier to entry for infrequent riders, and ultimately serves to discourage use of public transit.
    - hgomersall 2y ago
      Really? Setting up contactless payment is quicker than having a QR code image? I use QR codes on the UK train system and I don't have any special apps. It seems to integrate with Google wallet too, which surprised me.
rswail 2y ago
On rail systems with gates, these disposable "ultralite" RFID tickets are usually put through the old slot that used to take magentic tickets. Exit gates usually capture the ticket on exit when it has been used up (ie single journeys, or after the number of trips encoded on the ticket). These can (and are) recycled numerous times.
rswail 2y ago
The point of the disposables is that they use the same technology (NFC/RFID) as the more robust long term multi-use NFC cards. So if you're replacing an existing magnetic system, you can reuse the magnetic transports (belts/motors etc) for single use, including capture-at-exit and recycling for single journeys, while also adopting the NFC for multiple use.