5 ms·

Too bad it's a Republic.

dragonwriter 2y ago
“Republic” (any system in which top-level government offices aren't personal property of the officeholder) and “Democracy” (any system in which government serves and is accountable to the general population—usually through voting on candidates and/or specific policies—rather than vice versa) are not mutually exclusive. It’s pretty common for modern Western governments to be both of (Democratic, often also Federal) Republic and (Representative, sometimes with minor areas of Direct) Democracy.
- vundercind 2y ago
  To put a finer point on it: actual experts in the study of government routinely refer to the US as a democracy. It’s absolutely not a sign of better familiarity with the topic to “correct” that usage—it’s a sign of low side of middling familiarity, specifically.
  - DANmode 2y ago
    Debate whatever you want, we do not have a direct democracy, which is what most people hear when they hear "Democracy". It's Representative Democracy. Supposedly.
    - vundercind 2y ago
      That isn’t what most people think of when they hear “democracy” in the context of describing countries like the US as a democracy. Lay-usage and expert usage are in accord here. It means more-or-less liberal and with voting that significantly affects how the state runs and/or who runs it. That’s all, and that usage doesn’t confuse anyone. If we didn’t use “democracy” for that we’d just have to come up with something else, because it’s a very useful term to have. But everyone just uses “democracy” and that works great.
      - DANmode 2y ago
        It's what a nonzero number of Americans hear. You're talking to one, who knows others. Democracy as defined is a goal we have. Not something all (maybe most!) Americans would claim to enjoy.
        vundercind 2y ago
        You mean you thought tejohnso believes the US is a direct democracy, because of that post?
        DANmode 2y ago
        They, like many others, probably have a somewhat fuzzy grasp on what the meaning of word democracy is, due to the way it's used. Honestly, I can't even think of an alternate(, but still charitable,) interpretation of: "Shouldn't it be very easy to vote to fix that in a democracy?" Suggest one, if you can?
        dragonwriter 2y ago
        Goalposts shift from > most people to > a nonzero number of Americans Holy motte and bailey, Batman.
        DANmode 2y ago
        Why don't you keep this thread on-topic, and reply to: > "Shouldn't it be very easy to vote to fix that in a democracy?"
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - dragonwriter 2y ago
      > we do not have a direct democracy, which is what most people hear when they hear "Democracy". That hasn't been the dominant use of the term for centuries, but, sure, you keep pretending.
      - DANmode 2y ago
        No, you're right, we're bringing (federated republics with some vestige elements of) democracy ALL OVER THE WORLD!
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - dllthomas 2y ago
      It's a federated representative democracy with some issues, some of the components of which have some level of direct democracy. It is also a republic. It could be a republic even if it was a pure direct democracy somehow without "issues" - in fact I struggle to see how a direct democracy without issues could be something other than a republic.
      - DANmode 2y ago
        > some of the components of which have some level of direct democracy. What, HOAs?
        dragonwriter 2y ago
        State level initiative and referenda processes.

“Republic” (any system in which top-level government offices aren't personal property of the officeholder) and “Democracy” (any system in which government serves and is accountable to the general population—usually through voting on candidates and/or specific policies—rather than vice versa) are not mutually exclusive. It’s pretty common for modern Western governments to be both of (Democratic, often also Federal) Republic and (Representative, sometimes with minor areas of Direct) Democracy.

vundercind 2y ago
To put a finer point on it: actual experts in the study of government routinely refer to the US as a democracy. It’s absolutely not a sign of better familiarity with the topic to “correct” that usage—it’s a sign of low side of middling familiarity, specifically.
- DANmode 2y ago
  Debate whatever you want, we do not have a direct democracy, which is what most people hear when they hear "Democracy". It's Representative Democracy. Supposedly.
  - vundercind 2y ago
    That isn’t what most people think of when they hear “democracy” in the context of describing countries like the US as a democracy. Lay-usage and expert usage are in accord here. It means more-or-less liberal and with voting that significantly affects how the state runs and/or who runs it. That’s all, and that usage doesn’t confuse anyone. If we didn’t use “democracy” for that we’d just have to come up with something else, because it’s a very useful term to have. But everyone just uses “democracy” and that works great.
    - DANmode 2y ago
      It's what a nonzero number of Americans hear. You're talking to one, who knows others. Democracy as defined is a goal we have. Not something all (maybe most!) Americans would claim to enjoy.
      - vundercind 2y ago
        You mean you thought tejohnso believes the US is a direct democracy, because of that post?
        DANmode 2y ago
        They, like many others, probably have a somewhat fuzzy grasp on what the meaning of word democracy is, due to the way it's used. Honestly, I can't even think of an alternate(, but still charitable,) interpretation of: "Shouldn't it be very easy to vote to fix that in a democracy?" Suggest one, if you can?
      - dragonwriter 2y ago
        Goalposts shift from > most people to > a nonzero number of Americans Holy motte and bailey, Batman.
        DANmode 2y ago
        Why don't you keep this thread on-topic, and reply to: > "Shouldn't it be very easy to vote to fix that in a democracy?"
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
  - dragonwriter 2y ago
    > we do not have a direct democracy, which is what most people hear when they hear "Democracy". That hasn't been the dominant use of the term for centuries, but, sure, you keep pretending.
    - DANmode 2y ago
      No, you're right, we're bringing (federated republics with some vestige elements of) democracy ALL OVER THE WORLD!
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - dllthomas 2y ago
    It's a federated representative democracy with some issues, some of the components of which have some level of direct democracy. It is also a republic. It could be a republic even if it was a pure direct democracy somehow without "issues" - in fact I struggle to see how a direct democracy without issues could be something other than a republic.
    - DANmode 2y ago
      > some of the components of which have some level of direct democracy. What, HOAs?
      - dragonwriter 2y ago
        State level initiative and referenda processes.