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Doesn't just about everyone hate dealing with a dealership? Shouldn't it be very easy to vote to fix that in a democracy?

Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
Not when dealers pay politicians to keep it that way. Even if you ran a petition and forced a state ballot measure, dealers would run a propaganda campaign to make it sound like a pro-Tesla measure.
- red-iron-pine 2y ago
  "they're giving YOUR RIGHTS away to BIG CORPORATIONS. Vote NO on Bill 9928" when, of course, that very line was funded by large corporations. such is life in Modern America
abtinf 2y ago
See “Public Choice Theory”: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice Or watch the BBC comedy “Yes, Minister” and “Yes, Prime Minister” to grasp how government (as well as most large companies) actually works.
- kbolino 2y ago
  Yep. Basically, in no election we can practically foresee, is this going to be a politically salient issue. The voters aren't motivated enough about it, and the interest groups involved are mostly aligned on keeping the status quo. Elections put people and parties into power, not individual ideas.
- tmcdos 2y ago
  Direct democracy (https://klissarov.eu/en/books/platform-of-the-pp-direct-democracy/ https://klissarov.eu/en/books/platform-of-the-pp-direct-demo...) can change the status quo - if enough people get up from the couch and do vote for it. It just needs to reach a critical mass - but at the moment people are too lazy and wait for someone else to do the job.
tracker1 2y ago
It depends. Most jurisdictions allow for a ballot referendum to put measures to a popular vote. This has gotten more difficult with signatory requirements that have gotten larger in most states, mostly orchestrated to keep the dominant parties in power and limit grass roots efforts in general. Going through existing congressional process means getting at least a champion on board and overcoming dis/misinformation from many insider corporations, often large local donors. edit: From my understanding,successful campaigns via referendum tend to cost anywhere from $2-20 million usd. Often involving paid signature gathering and local advertising.
- kbolino 2y ago
  The "problem" with referenda is they often forcibly enact policies that the elected politicians, judges, bureaucrats, and other organized political actors don't want. Since these people decide what the government actually does, they often find ways to ignore, work around, or in some cases outright overturn, "settled" referendum results. Making it more difficult to get questions on the ballot outside of the ordinary political process is just streamlining things from their perspective.
DANmode 2y ago
Too bad it's a Republic.
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  “Republic” (any system in which top-level government offices aren't personal property of the officeholder) and “Democracy” (any system in which government serves and is accountable to the general population—usually through voting on candidates and/or specific policies—rather than vice versa) are not mutually exclusive. It’s pretty common for modern Western governments to be both of (Democratic, often also Federal) Republic and (Representative, sometimes with minor areas of Direct) Democracy.
  - vundercind 2y ago
    To put a finer point on it: actual experts in the study of government routinely refer to the US as a democracy. It’s absolutely not a sign of better familiarity with the topic to “correct” that usage—it’s a sign of low side of middling familiarity, specifically.
    - DANmode 2y ago
      Debate whatever you want, we do not have a direct democracy, which is what most people hear when they hear "Democracy". It's Representative Democracy. Supposedly.
      - vundercind 2y ago
        That isn’t what most people think of when they hear “democracy” in the context of describing countries like the US as a democracy. Lay-usage and expert usage are in accord here. It means more-or-less liberal and with voting that significantly affects how the state runs and/or who runs it. That’s all, and that usage doesn’t confuse anyone. If we didn’t use “democracy” for that we’d just have to come up with something else, because it’s a very useful term to have. But everyone just uses “democracy” and that works great.
AlexandrB 2y ago
I think that's true for tech savvy nerds, but my mom loves her dealership. Part of it might be the experience of leasing vs owning, where the dealership often does maintenance for free during the lease.
- jrs235 2y ago
  where the dealership often does maintenance for "free" during the lease FTFY. She's still paying for it!
immibis 2y ago
The percentage of people who want a law to pass is negatively correlated with the chance of it passing.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
acheron 2y ago
If voting could change anything it’d be illegal.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

Sohcahtoa82 2y ago

Not when dealers pay politicians to keep it that way. Even if you ran a petition and forced a state ballot measure, dealers would run a propaganda campaign to make it sound like a pro-Tesla measure.

red-iron-pine 2y ago
"they're giving YOUR RIGHTS away to BIG CORPORATIONS. Vote NO on Bill 9928" when, of course, that very line was funded by large corporations. such is life in Modern America

abtinf 2y ago

See “Public Choice Theory”: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice Or watch the BBC comedy “Yes, Minister” and “Yes, Prime Minister” to grasp how government (as well as most large companies) actually works.

kbolino 2y ago
Yep. Basically, in no election we can practically foresee, is this going to be a politically salient issue. The voters aren't motivated enough about it, and the interest groups involved are mostly aligned on keeping the status quo. Elections put people and parties into power, not individual ideas.
tmcdos 2y ago
Direct democracy (https://klissarov.eu/en/books/platform-of-the-pp-direct-democracy/ https://klissarov.eu/en/books/platform-of-the-pp-direct-demo...) can change the status quo - if enough people get up from the couch and do vote for it. It just needs to reach a critical mass - but at the moment people are too lazy and wait for someone else to do the job.

tracker1 2y ago

It depends. Most jurisdictions allow for a ballot referendum to put measures to a popular vote. This has gotten more difficult with signatory requirements that have gotten larger in most states, mostly orchestrated to keep the dominant parties in power and limit grass roots efforts in general. Going through existing congressional process means getting at least a champion on board and overcoming dis/misinformation from many insider corporations, often large local donors. edit: From my understanding,successful campaigns via referendum tend to cost anywhere from $2-20 million usd. Often involving paid signature gathering and local advertising.

kbolino 2y ago
The "problem" with referenda is they often forcibly enact policies that the elected politicians, judges, bureaucrats, and other organized political actors don't want. Since these people decide what the government actually does, they often find ways to ignore, work around, or in some cases outright overturn, "settled" referendum results. Making it more difficult to get questions on the ballot outside of the ordinary political process is just streamlining things from their perspective.

DANmode 2y ago

Too bad it's a Republic.

dragonwriter 2y ago
“Republic” (any system in which top-level government offices aren't personal property of the officeholder) and “Democracy” (any system in which government serves and is accountable to the general population—usually through voting on candidates and/or specific policies—rather than vice versa) are not mutually exclusive. It’s pretty common for modern Western governments to be both of (Democratic, often also Federal) Republic and (Representative, sometimes with minor areas of Direct) Democracy.
- vundercind 2y ago
  To put a finer point on it: actual experts in the study of government routinely refer to the US as a democracy. It’s absolutely not a sign of better familiarity with the topic to “correct” that usage—it’s a sign of low side of middling familiarity, specifically.
  - DANmode 2y ago
    Debate whatever you want, we do not have a direct democracy, which is what most people hear when they hear "Democracy". It's Representative Democracy. Supposedly.
    - vundercind 2y ago
      That isn’t what most people think of when they hear “democracy” in the context of describing countries like the US as a democracy. Lay-usage and expert usage are in accord here. It means more-or-less liberal and with voting that significantly affects how the state runs and/or who runs it. That’s all, and that usage doesn’t confuse anyone. If we didn’t use “democracy” for that we’d just have to come up with something else, because it’s a very useful term to have. But everyone just uses “democracy” and that works great.

AlexandrB 2y ago

I think that's true for tech savvy nerds, but my mom loves her dealership. Part of it might be the experience of leasing vs owning, where the dealership often does maintenance for free during the lease.

jrs235 2y ago
where the dealership often does maintenance for "free" during the lease FTFY. She's still paying for it!

immibis 2y ago

The percentage of people who want a law to pass is negatively correlated with the chance of it passing.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

acheron 2y ago

If voting could change anything it’d be illegal.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]