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Imagine if Steam took 30% of all sales on their platform! Or if Nintendo or Sony or Microsoft charged developers 30% for online app sales! (Spoiler: they all do

Imagine if Steam took 30% of all sales on their platform! Or if Nintendo or Sony or Microsoft charged developers 30% for online app sales! (Spoiler: they all do). There are lots of things worth criticizing about Apple's model, but I'll never understand the fixation on the 30% rule. They provide a distribution platform that is every bit as robust and has a much larger reach than the video game consoles, and if they want to charge the same prices as the consoles I don't see why that's the hill to die on when there are so many other things that are more obviously rotten.

badwolf 2y ago
Everyone also conveniently forgets that in many cases, Apple is only charging 15%, not 30 (small business, long-term subscriptions, etc...)
- awesomeMilou 2y ago
  You are conveniently forgetting that this was a direct response to the Epic Games lawsuit, as to not appear too anti competetive: https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-lowers-app-store-tax-to-15-for-developers-making-under-1m-a-year/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-lowers-app-store-tax-... Apple only makes concessions when it is under legislative pressure.
- hylaride 2y ago
  15% can still be too much. Alternative music, book, etc stores often have high IP payments that make the business case impossible because 15% is more than the profit margin. And apple doesn't have that 15% for it's music and book store. It's the definition of monopoly privilege.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
hu3 2y ago
Steam is one of the many app stores I can use. Not the only one. Meanwhile Apple forces their app store down their customers throat. And charges for the forced privilege. Consoles are not general purpose devices. But I wouldn't mind if EU went after them as well
- lolinder 2y ago
  > Steam is one of the many app stores I can use. > Not the only one. A) For the video game consoles this isn't true, they have full control just like Apple does. B) Like I said, there are better hills to die on. App store monopoly is one that makes more sense to me (though I still actually disagree with the mainstream HN consensus on it).
  - alt227 2y ago
    > A) For the video game consoles this isn't true, they have full control just like Apple does. You can still go to any physical retail store and buy a game developed by a 3rd party. Yes that 3rd Party company had to pay a license fee to release the game on the hardware but you can still choose where you want to buy that game from, including any sales or discounts that retailer might see fit to try to gain your custom.
    - lolinder 2y ago
      Which is a right that Apple was willing to concede, but people flipped out when they announced you'd still have to pay the fee. Consoles get a pass for things that Apple gets raked over the coals for. There's clearly something more going on than just "these specific behaviors are unacceptable always", which is the simplified take that gets popular on HN.
      - alt227 2y ago
        >Which is a right that Apple was willing to concede Begrudgly and in a way that is very much viewed as malicious compliance, hence them now being investigated for it. >but people flipped out when they announced you'd still have to pay the fee I agree with them When I buy an App from the app store, Apple should take a cut for providing the infrastructure, payment system etc, thats fair. If I am buying something from a company directly from their website or marketplace, for a service they provide in that app, why should I pay Apple a fee?
hylaride 2y ago
AFAIK, steam doesn't prevent developers from also allowing their games to be installed outside of steam (if so, then that's a problem). It's the fact that there's no alternative to get spotify, etc onto your phone that's the ultimate issue. The security of the app store in an enourmous advantage, but they're using it to extract huge premiums. Like it or not, our phones have become the primary medium we use for news, entertainment, etc. If it were me, I'd allow side-loading of apps onto the app store, but they'd then have zero access to your contacts, unique phone IDs, and strict privacy rules. Apple could still enforce malware via the apple subscription. Essentially, they can make it like MacOS, but not allow any unsigned apps.
- lolinder 2y ago
  > AFAIK, steam doesn't prevent developers from also allowing their games to be installed outside of steam (if so, then that's a problem). Yep, that's something that's better worth focusing on than 30%.
  - madeofpalk 2y ago
    Which is why DMA says nothing about 30%, and this complaint is largely about Apple forbidding steering.
lxgr 2y ago
Imagine if Steam were the only way to purchase games on your Windows PC.

badwolf 2y ago

Everyone also conveniently forgets that in many cases, Apple is only charging 15%, not 30 (small business, long-term subscriptions, etc...)

awesomeMilou 2y ago
You are conveniently forgetting that this was a direct response to the Epic Games lawsuit, as to not appear too anti competetive: https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-lowers-app-store-tax-to-15-for-developers-making-under-1m-a-year/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-lowers-app-store-tax-... Apple only makes concessions when it is under legislative pressure.
hylaride 2y ago
15% can still be too much. Alternative music, book, etc stores often have high IP payments that make the business case impossible because 15% is more than the profit margin. And apple doesn't have that 15% for it's music and book store. It's the definition of monopoly privilege.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

hu3 2y ago

Steam is one of the many app stores I can use. Not the only one. Meanwhile Apple forces their app store down their customers throat. And charges for the forced privilege. Consoles are not general purpose devices. But I wouldn't mind if EU went after them as well

lolinder 2y ago
> Steam is one of the many app stores I can use. > Not the only one. A) For the video game consoles this isn't true, they have full control just like Apple does. B) Like I said, there are better hills to die on. App store monopoly is one that makes more sense to me (though I still actually disagree with the mainstream HN consensus on it).
- alt227 2y ago
  > A) For the video game consoles this isn't true, they have full control just like Apple does. You can still go to any physical retail store and buy a game developed by a 3rd party. Yes that 3rd Party company had to pay a license fee to release the game on the hardware but you can still choose where you want to buy that game from, including any sales or discounts that retailer might see fit to try to gain your custom.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Which is a right that Apple was willing to concede, but people flipped out when they announced you'd still have to pay the fee. Consoles get a pass for things that Apple gets raked over the coals for. There's clearly something more going on than just "these specific behaviors are unacceptable always", which is the simplified take that gets popular on HN.
    - alt227 2y ago
      >Which is a right that Apple was willing to concede Begrudgly and in a way that is very much viewed as malicious compliance, hence them now being investigated for it. >but people flipped out when they announced you'd still have to pay the fee I agree with them When I buy an App from the app store, Apple should take a cut for providing the infrastructure, payment system etc, thats fair. If I am buying something from a company directly from their website or marketplace, for a service they provide in that app, why should I pay Apple a fee?

hylaride 2y ago

AFAIK, steam doesn't prevent developers from also allowing their games to be installed outside of steam (if so, then that's a problem). It's the fact that there's no alternative to get spotify, etc onto your phone that's the ultimate issue. The security of the app store in an enourmous advantage, but they're using it to extract huge premiums. Like it or not, our phones have become the primary medium we use for news, entertainment, etc. If it were me, I'd allow side-loading of apps onto the app store, but they'd then have zero access to your contacts, unique phone IDs, and strict privacy rules. Apple could still enforce malware via the apple subscription. Essentially, they can make it like MacOS, but not allow any unsigned apps.

lolinder 2y ago
> AFAIK, steam doesn't prevent developers from also allowing their games to be installed outside of steam (if so, then that's a problem). Yep, that's something that's better worth focusing on than 30%.
- madeofpalk 2y ago
  Which is why DMA says nothing about 30%, and this complaint is largely about Apple forbidding steering.

lxgr 2y ago

Imagine if Steam were the only way to purchase games on your Windows PC.