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I would encourage anyone who is comfortable with reinstalling Windows (or knows someone, I am about to do this to my partners PC) to go with the LTSC version of
by nerdjon 2y ago
I would encourage anyone who is comfortable with reinstalling Windows (or knows someone, I am about to do this to my partners PC) to go with the LTSC version of Windows. 11 LTSC is even out now if you want the most compatible version for gaming (I have seen some arguments that there are features in 11 that make games run better but I have yet to be able to really confirm this).
Gives all of the advantages on compatibility (particularly for gaming, I even installed LTSC on my Steam Deck) with having a seriously stripped down version of Windows.
Microsoft is very careful to make it seem like LTSC is so stripped down that it really only works for kiosks or similar devices, but it is perfectly capable as a general computing device. It is possible to install things that it is missing fairly easily, like if you need the Microsoft store (windows store? don't remember the name) to use the Xbox app it will prompt you to install the missing components.
Edit:
Since I got a couple comments about the license. I should have included that here. There is a github project for activation.
Since it is perfectly viable but removes a lot of the crap that Microsoft wants to push of course they don't make it easy to get. But personally if I already have a legal copy of Windows 11 I have no moral problems with using this script to activate LTSC Version.
Getting the ISO is easy with Microsoft providing them free to download.
Edit again:
Instead of replying to every comment regarding to just switch to linux I will edit my post here explaining why I have not.
First off, is for me Windows is primarily for gaming. So compatibility and performance are my number one priority.
Proton is great but you can't beat the compatibility of just using Windows. Never need to worry about an update breaking something or a game not working. It just does. In at least a few cases performance is even better on the LTSC version compared to SteamOS on my Steam Deck.
I also don't want to be restricted to just using Steam for games or needing to jump through additional hoops to play from other stores.
I play video games to relax, that isn't a time that I want to be tinkering or messing with my computer if something goes wrong.
- Zhyl 2y agoAre there trade-offs with this?
- hurutparittya 2y agoThe main trade-off is that you don't get to enjoy the benefits of upgrading to Linux instead :^)
- nerdjon 2y agoI have yet to have any issues with it and I switched full time to LTSC on multiple devices for about 2 years now, the only minor trade off is if something you rely on is not installed automatically like the Microsoft store. So when you first launch the Xbox app it will tell you that there are things that need to be installed, but it gives a button to do exactly that. You also don't get new features that Microsoft roles out, but I don't consider that a trade off and is instead a positive. Bonus I was able to un-install copilot completely from control panel on Windows 11 LTSC.
- makeitdouble 2y agoDidn't know what LTSC was about, so for people in the same boat: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot/iot-enterprise/overview https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot/iot-enterprise... The main issue I'd see is licensing. It seems to be a completely different bucket, so would it activate with a Home or Pro license ? (OEM or not)
- nerdjon 2y agoI should have mentioned that, yeah Licensing is the key problem here but there is a github script that fixes this if you don't have any ethical issues with that. But personally if I already have a legal copy of Win11 I have no moral problems with reinstalling LTSC and using a script to activate it.
- GreenVulpine 2y agoIt is always ethical to pirate Microsoft software. The unethical thing is giving them more money for this slop.
- makeitdouble 2y agoThanks for the pointer. The more I think of it, the more licensing looks like the best representation of Microsoft's strategy for Windows. Stable, lean and long term focused versions are locked under the most hidden of the enterprise licenses. Decent versions without the garbage ads and spyware features only ship to enterprise. "Pro" users are only blessed with virtualization and a few candies, and share the worse edition with "Home" users. It makes a lot more sense why the enterprise machines are near 30% more expensive than their customer counterpart.
- nerdjon 2y agoIt is interesting because a lot of people criticize Apple as basically you are paying for privacy. And that is very true, they have turned it into a marketing feature. But Microsoft is very brazen about it when it comes to Windows. The more you pay the less privacy invasive crap there is. I don't know for sure what the difference between home and pro is for analytics sent back to Microsoft, but LTSC is a drastic difference. (annoyingly still not zero though)
- fuzzy2 2y agoAnd how do you propose Regular Joe procure a license? Not trying to be snide, but LTSC is an enterprise product that is only available with volume licensing. So unless you want to pirate it…
- GreenVulpine 2y agoNo need for a license. Just activate it with one of the many activation scripts around.
- Zhyl 2y agoSo pirate it
- Novosell 2y agoIt's using a legit copy of windows and performing a legit activation, no exploits or anything. To call it piracy is the same as me telling you my pin and calling you a hacker when you login to my account, no? Microsoft could fix it, but they don't.
- ToucanLoucan 2y agoI genuinely wonder why they haven't. Those activation githubs have been around for what feels like forever at this point, and you just activate copies of Windows acquired from Microsoft for free, and they just... don't seem to care?
- 0xcde4c3db 2y agoI have no direct knowledge, but my best guess is that they have significant legit customers using these as an alternative to Microsoft's own Key Management Services. Historically, some stuff like this has even turned out to be used by the company themselves (e.g. a few Steam/GOG releases have been found to use old warez scene cracks, official arcade emulators using bootleg sets from MAME, etc.).
- reportgunner 2y agoWhy not just use Win10 LTSC ?
- kelsey98765431 2y agoThe amount of people doing this was so vast that windows 10 ltsc stopped receiving updates when windows 11 was first announced and by happy coincidence is just ever so slightly too old now for the benefits versus just using linux with proton on steam.
- nerdjon 2y agoI do not believe this is true. Windows 10 LTSC will continue to get security improvements at least until next year depending on the LTSC version you have installed and up to 2032. As far as it not getting a new cut version after the 2021 one, I feel like that is just normal practice? Does Microsoft normally cut a new version of their LTSC version on an older OS when they are working on the next version? Was there even a need for a new 10 LTSC after 2021?
- DEADMINCE 2y agoLTSC is a fantastic solution if Windows is a need, but there is no getting around it that the only way you can use it, or most people, is via piracy. You're ethically fine with it, but it's still a problem for many, even if purely due to legal concerns and not ethical ones. I want to game as well, but thankfully most of what I want to run will run on Linux. GTA6 likely won't, and then I'll have to look at streaming with moonlight or something, or playing on a VM with GPU passthrough. Qemu is making advances at allowing VMs to hide that they are VMs, so that might end up being a great solution.
- nerdjon 2y agoIt is worth putting out a very big caveat here that "piracy" in this sense is not downloading an Iso through BitTorrent when Microsoft provides the ISO for LTSC to freely download through your browser. The 'piracy' element is running an activation script off of GitHub. However IMO that is Microsoft problem and not mine for not providing a legal way for a normal consumer to get LTSC. They could make it another tier and charge more if they were inclined. I hate the idea of paying for privacy, but ethically I would be compelled to do so if the option was available to me. As said in other comments, personally ethically the way I justify it is I already have a Windows 11 License and I am just installing a different version of 11. Microsoft still got the money. Given that there is no torrenting and it is just a script you are running, I am legitimately curious about any legal ramifications. > but thankfully most of what I want to run will run on Linux. For me once I hit "most" and not "all" I asked myself why I was bothering, I was dual booting SteamOS and Windows but using Windows the vast majority of the time. Been debating recently on re-imaging and continuing to dual boot but solely to have SteamOS for firmware updates.
- treprinum 2y agoWouldn't W10 be better? No online account needed and there is still Windows Mixed Reality many VR games rely on.
- ziddoap 2y agoYou don't need an online account for W11 either.
- DanHulton 2y agoI'm on W10 for now for largely this reason, but it's not future-proof. Support ends on Oct 10, 2025, and they'll almost certainly stop supporting it with some gaming-critical libraries and functionalities sooner than that. When that happens, I'm going to do my damnedest to transition to Linux. I can already play the vast majority of games really well on my Steam Deck, so ideally I can recreate the same technology stack on my desktop and just have better hardware there.
- abhinavk 2y agoBazzite, Chimera and Nobara are trying to do the same thing on top of different mainstream distros if you don't want to do it yourself. For better hardware Nvidia Graphics issues are largely fixed with the new beta driver so by that time, it should be a good place.
- nerdjon 2y agoAs someone else said, in Windows 11 LTSC you do not need an online account to set it up.
- digging 2y ago> I even installed LTSC on my Steam Deck For what purpose?
- nerdjon 2y agoFull compatibility with games, I never need to think or worry about wether or not an update will break compatibility with Proton. Something that had happened a couple times with Halo Infinite and others. Not needing to worry about getting on the bad side of a developer like with Destiny 2. Easily use stores that are not just Steam to hopefully discourage a monopoly that is currently largely on PC gaming. If I want to run things like Discord, OBS, or whatever other thing I want running I don't have to jump through hoops. Finally the ability to use Game Pass games natively. Windows has become my primary driver on my Steam Deck. Does what I need it to do, play games. Some games even run better under 10LTSC compared to SteamOS.
- SSLy 2y agosome games want kernel level rootkits ("anticheat"), some just block their DRM in proton, and if you want to use game pass PC, well, you need MS store.
- wing-_-nuts 2y agoSerious question, why not just switch to linux? I installed W11 after building gaming / workstation this year, and I've grudgingly left it in place because I don't want 'anti-cheat' hassles that you sometimes run into playing games with steam / proton. If WSL wasn't a thing I would have formatted it by now. Linux is just such a better experience for development. I also simply cannot shake the fear that windows is leaking every keystroke back to some MS service I haven't disabled.
- nerdjon 2y agoFor me my windows setups are dedicated gaming devices, nothing more. Any general computing I do (with some random exceptions due to convenience) is on my Mac. So for me the number one priority is performance and compatibility. Which as far as proton has come, using the LTSC version on Windows easily wins on compatibility (especially once you leave Steam) and in some cases wins on performance. LTSC also drastically reduces the metrics sent back to Microsoft.
- metadat 2y agomacOS does offer a nicer overall UX than Windows, but the amount of telemetry Apple machines constantly stream to home base is disturbing. And unlike windows, I don't know of a way to turn it off. If you run Wireshark on any Mac you will observe the high volume of requests to Apple-owned IPs. Even when the machine is otherwise idle. It's creepy. On the other hand, Linux machines don't default to sending telemetry. P.s. Ubuntu is an exception to this rule which is one reason I'll never use Ubuntu again (they've included telemetry and embedded ads in the past). Debian and Pop_os both work remarkably well for desktop use these days.
- DEADMINCE 2y ago> macOS does offer a nicer overall UX than Windows, Eh, does it? I find it to be incredibly unintuitive, and so do many people I see try to use it with no prior PC experience.
- lawlessone 2y agoI just switched to Linux for gaming. So far most things have worked quite well FO4 and Horizon Dawn seem to have identical performance to windows. Simcity 4 has issues. But i has issues on new PC's too.
- zrobotics 2y agoModded or vanilla FO4? I'm curious if modded works at all and how much of an additional hassle is it compared to windows (which, depending on how much you are adding, can be quite a bit of work anyway).
- lawlessone 2y agoCurrent Steam vanilla version. GOG games seem to be harder to get working. There are some default mods bethesda recently gave away and some DLC i bought that haven't caused on issues. No idea about third party stuff Another indie game "Intergalactic fishing" doesn't run for me in windows, but does run on WINE .. which is hilarious.
- wkat4242 2y agoLTSC 24h2 is technically supposed to be out but it's still not available on msdn sadly.
- philistine 2y agoThat’s ultimately just playing the cat-and-mouse game with Microsoft. If LTSC becomes a commonly used trick to get local accounts, Microsoft will put even more barriers to get through. It’s not a game I’d want anyone to play.
- nerdjon 2y agoI honestly would not be too worried about that happening. LTSC is likely a small but critical part to Microsoft keeping Windows in control, being able to continue to deploy Windows in places that may have otherwise moved to Linux. Once an organization starts down that path than it opens the doors for other non windows systems. It also can't have too many restrictions put on how it runs and is activated or its value plummets. The fact is the vast majority of users won't go down this path, it will always be the power users or those with power users to manage their computers. But frankly, even if a significant portion (like say 10%) were to start using LTSC version. That still keeps Windows in a dominate position as far as the market and developer support goes. Which is a win for Microsoft.
- philistine 2y ago> But frankly, even if a significant portion (like say 10%) were to start using LTSC version. That still keeps Windows in a dominate position [...] You are talking about the 2012 version of Microsoft's vision for Windows. In 2024, they no longer go for these install bases. In this particular case, Linux has won any new entry in the embedded market, and they're mostly keeping their current clients happy with the LTSC version. I would be 0% surprised if Microsoft starts tightening the screws on those LTSC user to move them towards their cloud offerings. Microsoft no longer wants an install base; what it wants in 2024 is logged-in Windows users. Then they can sell them subscriptions and hoover up all their data, mostly for ad purposes, and probably for LLM training sooner rather than later.
- Berazu 2y agoThe new Forza game was not supported by the previous LTSC version for a long time so I wouldn’t say that it’s the most compatible version for gaming.
- nerdjon 2y agoWhich Forza and which LTSC version? I have not had issues with Horizon 5 or the new Forza on my steam deck under Windows 10 LTSC 2021. I believe I played both at or near launch. That is the first I have heard of a game not working on LTSC. Edit: My timeline is off, I did not try Horizon 5 on my steam deck until about a year after it came out since Horizon 5 predated the steam deck. However worth pointing out that it is one example of a game not working on LTSC vs many examples on proton so I would argue it still Wins out on compatibility.
- Berazu 2y agoHorizon 5 did not work for me and many others on Windows 10 LTSC Version 1809 when it was the de-facto latest LTSC available. I'm not sure what feature was missing but it was working just fine with the latest Windows 10 Pro version available at that time. Of course things might differ now but I still wouldn't say that compatibility is big on LTSC when there's a high chance that a new game might be missing essential features which only get added in the next LTSC version. See also: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10LTSC/wiki/incompatibility https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10LTSC/wiki/incompatibility