3 ms·

While it's always good to have people exploring improvements to UI elements, it would be superior to have those improvements show up as patches to WebKit or Fir

While it's always good to have people exploring improvements to UI elements, it would be superior to have those improvements show up as patches to WebKit or Firefox or GNOME or whatever else. Native UI elements need the improvements; that's where UI actually belongs. On mobile in particular, there's a couple of problems with the web-page approach to UI. One, it adds yet more stuff to download that "shouldn't" be necessary just for a page to be functional. And two, if the interface is too desktop-like I bet it'll either behave badly or not work at all on an iPhone (there's a reason iOS' scroller-menu-thing looks nothing like the Mac's pop-up menu interface despite both using Cocoa). Theoretically the second problem could be addressed by code that detects the device type and presents yet another web interface for mobile, but that'll probably make the first problem of page bloat even worse.

krsunny 14y ago
Good points but I think you're preaching to the choir. The bottleneck is the W3C which is probably bogged with all sorts of red tape and politics.
- thristian 14y ago
  That's why we have the WHATWG, whose mode of operation is much closer to the IETF's mantra of "rough consensus and running code".
- jacobr 14y ago
  In what way does the W3C block browsers from changing the UI of form controls? Most interesting innovation happens outside of the standard's committees, and as long as it is standardized in a reasonable amount of time, that's ok.
- eurleif 14y ago
  This is outside the scope of the W3C, and within the scope of browser vendors. The HTML specification doesn't say how a select element should be rendered, just that it should allow the user to choose from a list of options. That browsers all render select elements roughly the same is convention, not specification, and browser vendors could change if they wanted to.
  - krsunny 14y ago
    It's entirely within the scope of the W3C and IE6 is proof enough that vendors shouldn't implement things however they choose.
    - eurleif 14y ago
      Yes, vendors shouldn't do whatever they want, they should stick to the spec. In this case, the spec allows any rendering for select elements which allows the user to choose from a list of options. Using a different rendering from other browser does not violate the spec.
      - enjo 14y ago
        I've always felt like this was a major shortcoming of the specification. Inputs should have some consistent visual specification along with support for a well-defined set of styling options. We go through all of these gyrations precisely because the spec. doesn't define standard behavior. The differences in color, size, and shape from platform to platform (and browser to browser) can be very problematic for anyone trying to make the web beautiful.
        Someone 14y ago
        The other side of the argument is that it is beneficial that browsers determine how such elements work. If they did not, millions of mobile users would be struggling with tiny but beautifully rendered UI elements.

krsunny 14y ago

Good points but I think you're preaching to the choir. The bottleneck is the W3C which is probably bogged with all sorts of red tape and politics.

thristian 14y ago
That's why we have the WHATWG, whose mode of operation is much closer to the IETF's mantra of "rough consensus and running code".
jacobr 14y ago
In what way does the W3C block browsers from changing the UI of form controls? Most interesting innovation happens outside of the standard's committees, and as long as it is standardized in a reasonable amount of time, that's ok.
eurleif 14y ago
This is outside the scope of the W3C, and within the scope of browser vendors. The HTML specification doesn't say how a select element should be rendered, just that it should allow the user to choose from a list of options. That browsers all render select elements roughly the same is convention, not specification, and browser vendors could change if they wanted to.
- krsunny 14y ago
  It's entirely within the scope of the W3C and IE6 is proof enough that vendors shouldn't implement things however they choose.
  - eurleif 14y ago
    Yes, vendors shouldn't do whatever they want, they should stick to the spec. In this case, the spec allows any rendering for select elements which allows the user to choose from a list of options. Using a different rendering from other browser does not violate the spec.
    - enjo 14y ago
      I've always felt like this was a major shortcoming of the specification. Inputs should have some consistent visual specification along with support for a well-defined set of styling options. We go through all of these gyrations precisely because the spec. doesn't define standard behavior. The differences in color, size, and shape from platform to platform (and browser to browser) can be very problematic for anyone trying to make the web beautiful.
      - Someone 14y ago
        The other side of the argument is that it is beneficial that browsers determine how such elements work. If they did not, millions of mobile users would be struggling with tiny but beautifully rendered UI elements.