3 ms·

Right, but everyone from the individual prosecutor to the bureaucrats at the DOJ to the regulators at the FAA to members of Congress HAVE to be thinking "what i

Right, but everyone from the individual prosecutor to the bureaucrats at the DOJ to the regulators at the FAA to members of Congress HAVE to be thinking "what if the next fuckup involves a plane falling out of the air and 200+ deaths, then it's my ass on the line" at this point.

dotnet00 2y ago
FAA is probably thinking that since they're the ideal scapegoat in such a situation, but I don't think any member of Congress gives a shit about how many Boeing kills, as long as Boeing continues to pay them off.
- bluGill 2y ago
  Congress cares about votes more than payoff from Boeing. So long as voters don't care about how many Boeing kills congress wants the Boeing payoff. As soon as congress thinks voters care about Boeing congress will turn on Boeing. Do you care about "Elevance Health" - they larger than Boeing according to the fortune 500 list (20 vs 52 in 2024) - but I hadn't even heard of them until I looked up the list just now. I have no clue what the company is up to (health informs my guess, but it is a guess). Companies like them can continue to do whatever and voters won't care.
  - dotnet00 2y ago
    But voters care about a multitude of issues. People care much more about things like abortion, immigration, healthcare, gun rights (or control), and yet none of those are seeing any movement or chance of causing meaningful threat to their voter base. It'll take much much worse than a couple more crashes for the Boeing issue to eclipse all those things to become an issue people actually change their voting over.
    - nerdponx 2y ago
      Acute current events affect people differently. If a plane full of Americans falls out of the sky and kills everyone on board, and it turns out to be because of negligence at Boeing, and it happens close to an election, that will definitely be used against any incumbent politician who could be portrayed as responsible. Politicians want to avoid a scenario like that. But it does require several things to line up for that scenario to unfold, so they have no incentive to care beyond what is necessary to prevent it.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Movement takes time. Those against abortion have been active for decades. Likewise those against gun control. those may not be your side of the issue but it is clear a lot of voters care and are voting opposite of you.
      - floxy 2y ago
        >Those against abortion have been active for decades. Like 240 decades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
  - petronio 2y ago
    Congress will do the usual: accept Boeing's money and overlook the issue on one hand, and pretend to the public that they're doing otherwise on the other. Unfortunately, Americans and the peoples of many democratic countries have given up on verifying if their elected officials are actually doing what they say they are, so taking a ~~bribe~~ campaign contribution and lying about it is a medium-high gain and low risk activity. As a bonus, you can then use those contributions to market yourself and your lies to the same voters even harder!
whycome 2y ago
It's crazy how close that door blowout was to being just that kind of disaster. If it happens later/higher it's a much different outcome.
ryandrake 2y ago
Well, these "plane falling out of the sky" fuckups have already happened[1] and the culture there still has obviously not changed. Maybe it's going to take a "plane full of Americans falling out of the sky" fuckup event. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings
sandworm101 2y ago
How many of those leaders are steeped in the old ways of airlines, back in the 70s/80s/90s when 1000+ deaths a year was the norm? I wonder how many of them believe air travel has become too safe, that there is profit to be made by backing off the recent improvements. https://asn.flightsafety.org/statistics/period/stats.php https://asn.flightsafety.org/statistics/period/stats.php
cyanydeez 2y ago
Because that's clearly been happening the last 40 years? Can you name someone whose been scapegoated for 200+ deaths recently?

dotnet00 2y ago

FAA is probably thinking that since they're the ideal scapegoat in such a situation, but I don't think any member of Congress gives a shit about how many Boeing kills, as long as Boeing continues to pay them off.

bluGill 2y ago
Congress cares about votes more than payoff from Boeing. So long as voters don't care about how many Boeing kills congress wants the Boeing payoff. As soon as congress thinks voters care about Boeing congress will turn on Boeing. Do you care about "Elevance Health" - they larger than Boeing according to the fortune 500 list (20 vs 52 in 2024) - but I hadn't even heard of them until I looked up the list just now. I have no clue what the company is up to (health informs my guess, but it is a guess). Companies like them can continue to do whatever and voters won't care.
- dotnet00 2y ago
  But voters care about a multitude of issues. People care much more about things like abortion, immigration, healthcare, gun rights (or control), and yet none of those are seeing any movement or chance of causing meaningful threat to their voter base. It'll take much much worse than a couple more crashes for the Boeing issue to eclipse all those things to become an issue people actually change their voting over.
  - nerdponx 2y ago
    Acute current events affect people differently. If a plane full of Americans falls out of the sky and kills everyone on board, and it turns out to be because of negligence at Boeing, and it happens close to an election, that will definitely be used against any incumbent politician who could be portrayed as responsible. Politicians want to avoid a scenario like that. But it does require several things to line up for that scenario to unfold, so they have no incentive to care beyond what is necessary to prevent it.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Movement takes time. Those against abortion have been active for decades. Likewise those against gun control. those may not be your side of the issue but it is clear a lot of voters care and are voting opposite of you.
    - floxy 2y ago
      >Those against abortion have been active for decades. Like 240 decades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
- petronio 2y ago
  Congress will do the usual: accept Boeing's money and overlook the issue on one hand, and pretend to the public that they're doing otherwise on the other. Unfortunately, Americans and the peoples of many democratic countries have given up on verifying if their elected officials are actually doing what they say they are, so taking a ~~bribe~~ campaign contribution and lying about it is a medium-high gain and low risk activity. As a bonus, you can then use those contributions to market yourself and your lies to the same voters even harder!

whycome 2y ago

It's crazy how close that door blowout was to being just that kind of disaster. If it happens later/higher it's a much different outcome.

ryandrake 2y ago

Well, these "plane falling out of the sky" fuckups have already happened[1] and the culture there still has obviously not changed. Maybe it's going to take a "plane full of Americans falling out of the sky" fuckup event. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings

sandworm101 2y ago

How many of those leaders are steeped in the old ways of airlines, back in the 70s/80s/90s when 1000+ deaths a year was the norm? I wonder how many of them believe air travel has become too safe, that there is profit to be made by backing off the recent improvements. https://asn.flightsafety.org/statistics/period/stats.php https://asn.flightsafety.org/statistics/period/stats.php

cyanydeez 2y ago

Because that's clearly been happening the last 40 years? Can you name someone whose been scapegoated for 200+ deaths recently?