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Just because you don't see downsides doesn't mean there aren't any. Coins are lost or broken or intentionally damaged, and may need cleaning and staff to handle

by zulban 2y ago

Just because you don't see downsides doesn't mean there aren't any. Coins are lost or broken or intentionally damaged, and may need cleaning and staff to handle and transport them. It's not zero waste. In fact I suspect the STM solution may overall have less waste. If you read the article, the chip is the size of a grain of salt. Airline is not just whataboutism. It illustrates the absurdity of scale in your point. Imagine someone who is spending 20 minutes to save themselves 4 pennies on their electrical bill, but they are running 8 air conditioners with their windows open during a heatwave. Yes, that's whataboutism, but it's an informal fallacy, meaning I may still have a good point.

lxgr 2y ago
> I suspect the STM solution may overall have less waste. If you read the article, the chip is the size of a grain of salt. The antenna isn't, however. In any case, I think there's a pretty high chance these tickets will not end up in a dedicated recycling facility that can properly separate antenna from paper and recycle both, disregarding the chip. For similar reasons, Japan is phasing out even magnetic stripe single-ride tickets out of recycling concerns (in favor of QR code based ones). > Imagine someone who is spending 20 minutes to save themselves 4 pennies on their electrical bill That's not an appropriate comparison, though. Buying a reusable token doesn't take 20 minutes more than buying a paper ticket. Imagine instead a device manufacturer spending some months of R&D to help every single household in a large country save 4 pennies on their electrical bills, and it doesn't seem so absurd anymore.
- kube-system 2y ago
  > Buying a reusable token doesn't take 20 minutes more than buying a paper ticket. No, but it could expend 20x the resources, and not be used 20x as much. As the article mentions, the purpose of these paper tickets is for single-use or short term use, and the system also supports plastic cards for longer term use.
  - lxgr 2y ago
    These tokens are collected at the end of each trip (or you can’t leave). This obviously only works in systems that have mandatory exit turnstiles.

by zulban 2y ago

lxgr 2y ago

> I suspect the STM solution may overall have less waste. If you read the article, the chip is the size of a grain of salt. The antenna isn't, however. In any case, I think there's a pretty high chance these tickets will not end up in a dedicated recycling facility that can properly separate antenna from paper and recycle both, disregarding the chip. For similar reasons, Japan is phasing out even magnetic stripe single-ride tickets out of recycling concerns (in favor of QR code based ones). > Imagine someone who is spending 20 minutes to save themselves 4 pennies on their electrical bill That's not an appropriate comparison, though. Buying a reusable token doesn't take 20 minutes more than buying a paper ticket. Imagine instead a device manufacturer spending some months of R&D to help every single household in a large country save 4 pennies on their electrical bills, and it doesn't seem so absurd anymore.

kube-system 2y ago
> Buying a reusable token doesn't take 20 minutes more than buying a paper ticket. No, but it could expend 20x the resources, and not be used 20x as much. As the article mentions, the purpose of these paper tickets is for single-use or short term use, and the system also supports plastic cards for longer term use.
- lxgr 2y ago
  These tokens are collected at the end of each trip (or you can’t leave). This obviously only works in systems that have mandatory exit turnstiles.