5 ms·

Microsoft's end goal is "Windows as a subscription service". Has always been since Windows 10 times if not earlier. All these little nasty anti-user bits stem

by eps 2y ago

Microsoft's end goal is "Windows as a subscription service". Has always been since Windows 10 times if not earlier. All these little nasty anti-user bits stem directly from that.

MilaM 2y ago
I'm pretty confident, that Apple has the same goal. We are not there yet, but how else will they satisfy shareholders with ever-growing profits?
- xattt 2y ago
  > how else will they satisfy shareholders with ever-growing profits? Typing as a service, with characters billed by the keystroke. A mixture of Wheel of Fortune and Scrabble rules apply. Vowels are free, but rare consonants or letter combinations carry a premium. /s
- nerdjon 2y ago
  I highly doubt it, Apple has not charged for Mac for 10 years. They have the profits from hardware and the upgrade cycle as new versions drop old hardware. I imagine if anything we will see a program like the iPhone upgrade program come to Mac. That would better fit their existing workflow anyways.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    They charge up front with their margins.
  - rafram 2y ago
    There’s just no way very many people would pay for a Mac upgrade program. The iPhone one works by having you pay the monthly installment price for the phone forever. That’s usually in the $30-40/month range, which many people can stomach in exchange for guaranteed new phones every year. But Mac installment prices are $200+ a month. There just isn’t a market for a laptop subscription that costs as much as car insurance.
    - nerdjon 2y ago
      A Mac Upgrade program doesn't have to be the same upgrade cycle, same if they went the route of doing an iPad upgrade program. It would also help minimize the need to try to future proof your choice. I know when I go to buy a Mac I often way over spec since I am planning for at least 3 or 4 years. That conversation is completely different if I know I am getting an upgrade in 1 or 2 years. Meanwhile if the Mac Upgrade Program could be, idk a 2 year upgrade plan. Looking at the cheapest 16" M3 Max MBP. Right now that is $291.58 month for 12 months. If a Mac Upgrade Plan did the same timeline as iPhone where you paid over 2 years but could upgrade after a year that would be about $147.28. But it could likely be a 3 or 4 year timeline and be even cheaper. If we look at the lower end it gets even cheaper with the cheapest 16" MBP could be $104 a month. The cheapest 14" MPB could be $66.5 a month. Keeps going cheaper if you look at the Air. I feel like at that price the market very much exists when the top iPhone is $74.91 a month. The question is if the numbers make sense on Apple's side.
  - bluescrn 2y ago
    Apple is almost a subscription service. You just pay in huge installments once every 2-5 years, by replacing the entire device when the battery degrades or performance is starting to feel underwhelming.
    - torstenvl 2y ago
      Why not just change the battery?
      - bluescrn 2y ago
        Because it's been made intentionally difficult, with significant risk of further damaging the product you're trying to repair. And there's no official supply of replacements. A battery change shouldn't require heat guns, special suction/clamp tools, or adhesive-dissolving chemicals. It also shouldn't require being without your device for an unknown period of time to send it in for service.
        fckgw 2y ago
        Ok, but a battery replacement is possible. You don't just throw it away. I've gotten battery replacements on various iPhones, iPads and Macbooks and it's a pretty straightforward processes.
        the_snooze 2y ago
        Reading through bluescrn's comments, it seems like anything short of "I can easily replace the battery myself" is unacceptable. Would I like to be able to replace the battery in my Apple devices myself? Absolutely. Is it an unreasonable amount of money and effort to have the Apple Store do it? Not at all. Getting them to replace the battery is no big deal. If there's something to complain about, it's that they (probably intentionally) don't do a good job advertising their battery service.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
- mschuster91 2y ago
  As long as Apple charges > 1k $ for a 2TB SSD, a 5x markup on competition, they'll be fine. Apple is a hardware company first, then an App Store rent seeker, and a software company third. [1] https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/mac/accessories/storage https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/mac/accessories/storage
  - 7thpower 2y ago
    I am not as cynical as others about the compromises Apple is willing to make to grow, but it is worth noting that Tim sure does talk about services a lot: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/05/apple-reports-second-quarter-results/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/05/apple-reports-second-...
  - walterbell 2y ago
    The Apple storage tax also creates #DongleLife, as port quotas discourage dedicating a port to external storage like the tiny Ultra Fit, https://www.amazon.ca/SanDisk-128GB-Ultra-Flash-Drive/dp/B07855LJ99 https://www.amazon.ca/SanDisk-128GB-Ultra-Flash-Drive/dp/B07....
Throw_Away_1049 2y ago
I purchased the new ARM laptop Surface. It’s wild how they attempt to optimize Windows. >Ads in Outlook. Want to remove? $2 a month. >Want to use Windows productivity software? $100 a year. >Want to use more copilot features? $20 a month. >Want to game? Please use our subscription Xbox service. Etc etc.
- CoastalCoder 2y ago
  Sincere question: are those examples real, or hyperbole?
  - Throw_Away_1049 2y ago
    Good question. Unfortunately it’s real.
  - vel0city 2y ago
    Most of those are essentially hyperbole. The ads in Outlook are if you're using the free @outlook.com email address. I'm using it with a Zoho email account and I haven't seen ads. Windows productivity software? Office? Obviously, it is a paid software suite. Always has been. No surprise they're not giving it away. It is not like this is some new thing behind a paywall suddenly. Sure, back in the day it was pretty common for an average home PC to come with at least some version of Microsoft Works, but technically that was an OEM-licensed basic productivity software suite, not actually free. In the end it was just that Dell, HP, Compaq, or whoever was paying for it to put it on the list of out of the box features. More Copilot features for $20 a month? It is essentially a custom flavor of OpenAI with some more hooks and context. It is no surprise a hosted AI service that normally costs $20/mo continues to cost $20/mo. You don't need Xbox Game Pass to play games in Windows. Steam, GOG, etc. all still work perfectly fine without it. Game Pass is all about subscribing to a lot of games, including many AAA $60+ games. Let me know when Apple Music and Apple TV+ goes completely free. It is like arguing "Want to listen to music on an iPhone? Gotta pay for Apple Music. Want to watch videos on your Macbook? Need to pay for Apple TV+ streaming service. Want to send an email? Gotta pay for an iCloud subscription. Want to use headphones with your Apple device? Guess you have to buy Airpods."
at_a_remove 2y ago
I knew a guy who worked at Microsoft and was sending me NT 5 (later called Windows 2000) alphas to try out. Even then, the goal was to have an electric bill, a gas bill, and a "Bill" bill.

by eps 2y ago

Microsoft's end goal is "Windows as a subscription service". Has always been since Windows 10 times if not earlier. All these little nasty anti-user bits stem directly from that.

MilaM 2y ago

I'm pretty confident, that Apple has the same goal. We are not there yet, but how else will they satisfy shareholders with ever-growing profits?

xattt 2y ago
> how else will they satisfy shareholders with ever-growing profits? Typing as a service, with characters billed by the keystroke. A mixture of Wheel of Fortune and Scrabble rules apply. Vowels are free, but rare consonants or letter combinations carry a premium. /s
nerdjon 2y ago
I highly doubt it, Apple has not charged for Mac for 10 years. They have the profits from hardware and the upgrade cycle as new versions drop old hardware. I imagine if anything we will see a program like the iPhone upgrade program come to Mac. That would better fit their existing workflow anyways.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  They charge up front with their margins.
- rafram 2y ago
  There’s just no way very many people would pay for a Mac upgrade program. The iPhone one works by having you pay the monthly installment price for the phone forever. That’s usually in the $30-40/month range, which many people can stomach in exchange for guaranteed new phones every year. But Mac installment prices are $200+ a month. There just isn’t a market for a laptop subscription that costs as much as car insurance.
  - nerdjon 2y ago
    A Mac Upgrade program doesn't have to be the same upgrade cycle, same if they went the route of doing an iPad upgrade program. It would also help minimize the need to try to future proof your choice. I know when I go to buy a Mac I often way over spec since I am planning for at least 3 or 4 years. That conversation is completely different if I know I am getting an upgrade in 1 or 2 years. Meanwhile if the Mac Upgrade Program could be, idk a 2 year upgrade plan. Looking at the cheapest 16" M3 Max MBP. Right now that is $291.58 month for 12 months. If a Mac Upgrade Plan did the same timeline as iPhone where you paid over 2 years but could upgrade after a year that would be about $147.28. But it could likely be a 3 or 4 year timeline and be even cheaper. If we look at the lower end it gets even cheaper with the cheapest 16" MBP could be $104 a month. The cheapest 14" MPB could be $66.5 a month. Keeps going cheaper if you look at the Air. I feel like at that price the market very much exists when the top iPhone is $74.91 a month. The question is if the numbers make sense on Apple's side.
- bluescrn 2y ago
  Apple is almost a subscription service. You just pay in huge installments once every 2-5 years, by replacing the entire device when the battery degrades or performance is starting to feel underwhelming.
  - torstenvl 2y ago
    Why not just change the battery?
    - bluescrn 2y ago
      Because it's been made intentionally difficult, with significant risk of further damaging the product you're trying to repair. And there's no official supply of replacements. A battery change shouldn't require heat guns, special suction/clamp tools, or adhesive-dissolving chemicals. It also shouldn't require being without your device for an unknown period of time to send it in for service.
      - fckgw 2y ago
        Ok, but a battery replacement is possible. You don't just throw it away. I've gotten battery replacements on various iPhones, iPads and Macbooks and it's a pretty straightforward processes.
        the_snooze 2y ago
        Reading through bluescrn's comments, it seems like anything short of "I can easily replace the battery myself" is unacceptable. Would I like to be able to replace the battery in my Apple devices myself? Absolutely. Is it an unreasonable amount of money and effort to have the Apple Store do it? Not at all. Getting them to replace the battery is no big deal. If there's something to complain about, it's that they (probably intentionally) don't do a good job advertising their battery service.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
mschuster91 2y ago
As long as Apple charges > 1k $ for a 2TB SSD, a 5x markup on competition, they'll be fine. Apple is a hardware company first, then an App Store rent seeker, and a software company third. [1] https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/mac/accessories/storage https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/mac/accessories/storage
- 7thpower 2y ago
  I am not as cynical as others about the compromises Apple is willing to make to grow, but it is worth noting that Tim sure does talk about services a lot: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/05/apple-reports-second-quarter-results/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/05/apple-reports-second-...
- walterbell 2y ago
  The Apple storage tax also creates #DongleLife, as port quotas discourage dedicating a port to external storage like the tiny Ultra Fit, https://www.amazon.ca/SanDisk-128GB-Ultra-Flash-Drive/dp/B07855LJ99 https://www.amazon.ca/SanDisk-128GB-Ultra-Flash-Drive/dp/B07....

Throw_Away_1049 2y ago

I purchased the new ARM laptop Surface. It’s wild how they attempt to optimize Windows. >Ads in Outlook. Want to remove? $2 a month. >Want to use Windows productivity software? $100 a year. >Want to use more copilot features? $20 a month. >Want to game? Please use our subscription Xbox service. Etc etc.

CoastalCoder 2y ago
Sincere question: are those examples real, or hyperbole?
- Throw_Away_1049 2y ago
  Good question. Unfortunately it’s real.
- vel0city 2y ago
  Most of those are essentially hyperbole. The ads in Outlook are if you're using the free @outlook.com email address. I'm using it with a Zoho email account and I haven't seen ads. Windows productivity software? Office? Obviously, it is a paid software suite. Always has been. No surprise they're not giving it away. It is not like this is some new thing behind a paywall suddenly. Sure, back in the day it was pretty common for an average home PC to come with at least some version of Microsoft Works, but technically that was an OEM-licensed basic productivity software suite, not actually free. In the end it was just that Dell, HP, Compaq, or whoever was paying for it to put it on the list of out of the box features. More Copilot features for $20 a month? It is essentially a custom flavor of OpenAI with some more hooks and context. It is no surprise a hosted AI service that normally costs $20/mo continues to cost $20/mo. You don't need Xbox Game Pass to play games in Windows. Steam, GOG, etc. all still work perfectly fine without it. Game Pass is all about subscribing to a lot of games, including many AAA $60+ games. Let me know when Apple Music and Apple TV+ goes completely free. It is like arguing "Want to listen to music on an iPhone? Gotta pay for Apple Music. Want to watch videos on your Macbook? Need to pay for Apple TV+ streaming service. Want to send an email? Gotta pay for an iCloud subscription. Want to use headphones with your Apple device? Guess you have to buy Airpods."

at_a_remove 2y ago

I knew a guy who worked at Microsoft and was sending me NT 5 (later called Windows 2000) alphas to try out. Even then, the goal was to have an electric bill, a gas bill, and a "Bill" bill.