4 ms·

Pretty much. Communism is one end of a spectrum where the governments controls the entire economic activity. When the government manages 40% of my earnings, we

Pretty much. Communism is one end of a spectrum where the governments controls the entire economic activity. When the government manages 40% of my earnings, we are 40% there (to first order approximation, of course there are other factors).

FpUser 2y ago
Rich do not pay 40%. Not anywhere close. Workers do. We have a system that penalizes workers explicitly and let exploiters get away. It is crony capitalism and has nothing to do with the communism which as was defined had never materialized anywhere.
- ses1984 2y ago
  But since you’re not rich and you pay the peasant tax rate of 40%, you’re 25% closer to communism than rich people who pay about 15%, to a first approximation. Checkmate, liberal.
  - admissionsguy 2y ago
    It is striking how thoughtless and vitriolic the left has become. Doesn't bode well for November, does it?
    - ses1984 2y ago
      Calling the left thoughtless and vitriolic, that’s rich.
      - robertlagrant 2y ago
        Why's that?
        ses1984 2y ago
        There’s no possible way you can be asking this question in good faith, but here you go anyway: > Happy Thanksgiving to ALL, including the Racist & Incompetent Attorney General of New York State, Letitia “Peekaboo” James, who has let Murder & Violent Crime FLOURISH, & Businesses FLEE; the Radical Left Trump Hating Judge, a “Psycho,” Arthur Engoron, who Criminally Defrauded the State of New York, & ME, by purposely Valuing my Assets at a “tiny” Fraction of what they are really worth in order to convict me of Fraud before even a Trial, or seeing any PROOF, & used his Politically Biased & Corrupt Campaign Finance Violator, Chief Clerk Alison Greenfield, to sit by his side on the “Bench” & tell him what to do; & Crooked Joe Biden, who has WEAPONIZED his Department of Injustice against his Political Opponent, & allowed our Country to go to HELL; & all of the other Radical Left Lunatics, Communists, Fascists, Marxists, Democrats, & RINOS, who are seriously looking to DESTROY OUR COUNTRY. Have no fear, however, we will WIN the Presidential Election of 2024, & MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!
    - FpUser 2y ago
      Where do you see vitriol? To me it looks like - truth hurts. And I am anything but left or right.
  - FpUser 2y ago
    This is one case of royally fucked up logic.
- admissionsguy 2y ago
  40% is also the typical government spending as the share of GDP (more in the EU, slightly less in the US). Being concerned with what taxes the rich pay or don't pay directly is just populist and not very interesting. The assets they own generate the taxes. I am more concerned with social mobility, which is decent the US, worse in Europe. As long as a decent chunk of billionaires are first generation, it's not a bad state of affairs.
  - FpUser 2y ago
    >"Being concerned with what taxes the rich pay or don't pay directly is just populist and not very interesting." It is very interesting to me. Why FFS I should pay more than the person who makes infinitely more money? It is codified persecution based on wealth.
    - robertlagrant 2y ago
      You don't pay more. And when people own businesses, those businesses also pay taxes. And their employees all pay taxes. And when you buy something, you pay taxes. If you get a dividend, you pay taxes. It's all taxes, all the way down. You don't pay more taxes.
      - FpUser 2y ago
        I was talking about personal income tax as a percentage of my income. Spending is discretionary and does not matter. Otherwise I have a proposal for you - let's get rid of income tax and replace it with sales tax. Also I do own business so no need to explain me all it's virtues.
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  > has nothing to do with the communism which as was defined had never materialized anywhere What are the conditions required for it to materialise?
  - jampekka 2y ago
    Probably centuries of socialism (or "lower stage of socialism") as per the Marx and marxist thought. The conflicts of interests in production have to have vanished (in marxist terms the so called class struggle has ended). Many communists doubt whether this is even possible, but find it a good goal nevertheless. In communism there's no state, and hence no government. Communist parties don't claim that countries they run are communist (it would be an oxymoron), or even socialist yet (China kind of hints at that though). "In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly – only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!" https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htm https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01....
FLT8 2y ago
40% is the marginal rate. Only a very small proportion of people will be paying that, and vanishingly few will be paying that on a substantial proportion of their earnings. The average rate of taxes paid will be much more reasonable.

FpUser 2y ago

Rich do not pay 40%. Not anywhere close. Workers do. We have a system that penalizes workers explicitly and let exploiters get away. It is crony capitalism and has nothing to do with the communism which as was defined had never materialized anywhere.

ses1984 2y ago
But since you’re not rich and you pay the peasant tax rate of 40%, you’re 25% closer to communism than rich people who pay about 15%, to a first approximation. Checkmate, liberal.
- admissionsguy 2y ago
  It is striking how thoughtless and vitriolic the left has become. Doesn't bode well for November, does it?
  - ses1984 2y ago
    Calling the left thoughtless and vitriolic, that’s rich.
    - robertlagrant 2y ago
      Why's that?
      - ses1984 2y ago
        There’s no possible way you can be asking this question in good faith, but here you go anyway: > Happy Thanksgiving to ALL, including the Racist & Incompetent Attorney General of New York State, Letitia “Peekaboo” James, who has let Murder & Violent Crime FLOURISH, & Businesses FLEE; the Radical Left Trump Hating Judge, a “Psycho,” Arthur Engoron, who Criminally Defrauded the State of New York, & ME, by purposely Valuing my Assets at a “tiny” Fraction of what they are really worth in order to convict me of Fraud before even a Trial, or seeing any PROOF, & used his Politically Biased & Corrupt Campaign Finance Violator, Chief Clerk Alison Greenfield, to sit by his side on the “Bench” & tell him what to do; & Crooked Joe Biden, who has WEAPONIZED his Department of Injustice against his Political Opponent, & allowed our Country to go to HELL; & all of the other Radical Left Lunatics, Communists, Fascists, Marxists, Democrats, & RINOS, who are seriously looking to DESTROY OUR COUNTRY. Have no fear, however, we will WIN the Presidential Election of 2024, & MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!
  - FpUser 2y ago
    Where do you see vitriol? To me it looks like - truth hurts. And I am anything but left or right.
- FpUser 2y ago
  This is one case of royally fucked up logic.
admissionsguy 2y ago
40% is also the typical government spending as the share of GDP (more in the EU, slightly less in the US). Being concerned with what taxes the rich pay or don't pay directly is just populist and not very interesting. The assets they own generate the taxes. I am more concerned with social mobility, which is decent the US, worse in Europe. As long as a decent chunk of billionaires are first generation, it's not a bad state of affairs.
- FpUser 2y ago
  >"Being concerned with what taxes the rich pay or don't pay directly is just populist and not very interesting." It is very interesting to me. Why FFS I should pay more than the person who makes infinitely more money? It is codified persecution based on wealth.
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    You don't pay more. And when people own businesses, those businesses also pay taxes. And their employees all pay taxes. And when you buy something, you pay taxes. If you get a dividend, you pay taxes. It's all taxes, all the way down. You don't pay more taxes.
    - FpUser 2y ago
      I was talking about personal income tax as a percentage of my income. Spending is discretionary and does not matter. Otherwise I have a proposal for you - let's get rid of income tax and replace it with sales tax. Also I do own business so no need to explain me all it's virtues.
robertlagrant 2y ago
> has nothing to do with the communism which as was defined had never materialized anywhere What are the conditions required for it to materialise?
- jampekka 2y ago
  Probably centuries of socialism (or "lower stage of socialism") as per the Marx and marxist thought. The conflicts of interests in production have to have vanished (in marxist terms the so called class struggle has ended). Many communists doubt whether this is even possible, but find it a good goal nevertheless. In communism there's no state, and hence no government. Communist parties don't claim that countries they run are communist (it would be an oxymoron), or even socialist yet (China kind of hints at that though). "In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly – only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!" https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htm https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01....

FLT8 2y ago

40% is the marginal rate. Only a very small proportion of people will be paying that, and vanishingly few will be paying that on a substantial proportion of their earnings. The average rate of taxes paid will be much more reasonable.