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The only reason is that they don't want the public to realise how greedy they are. They know the value they add is not worth the price difference to a lot of cu

The only reason is that they don't want the public to realise how greedy they are. They know the value they add is not worth the price difference to a lot of customers. As many have said for years. As long as Apple is not able to explain their value to the customer, they have to rely on shady business tactics to maintain the revenue stream they became addicted to.

pjmlp 2y ago
Having been so close to bankruptcy seemed to have tainted their behaviour, that now anything goes to protect what in the end saved them, moreso than in other companies.
- ninth_ant 2y ago
  No, not “moreso than in other companies” — maximizing profits is something that effectively all companies do. The difference is that smaller companies can get away with anticompetitive behaviour but there are regulations for market leaders. What Apple was allowed to do when they were a disrupter is different from what they are allowed to do with a dominant postion in the ecosystem. PS Saying all companies are greedy and would abuse a market position is not a moral defense of Apple’s behaviour, it’s a defense of antitrust regulations.
carlosjobim 2y ago
Do you know any other marketplace / reseller who puts a message: "By the way, if you book directly with the provider and cut us out, it will be cheaper"? I can fully understand Apple's position. They created the system that customers love, developers will have to pay something to get access to those customers. Apple doesn't have to explain to customers the value. Anybody who is buying or using an iPhone today knows what they're getting.
- ffgjgf1 2y ago
  > I can fully understand Apple's position They want to maximize their revenue, just like any other company and there is absolutely nothing else to it. > Anybody who is buying or using an iPhone today knows what they're getting. You don’t get to pick and choose which features do you want and most people don’t really care. Anybody who is buying or using an iPhone today knows what they're getting. That’s what allows Apple to abuse their position as a quasi-monopoly (as a platform for app developers adjusted by user spending they are effectively that in multiple markets).
  - carlosjobim 2y ago
    It's repeated again and again among hackers that Apple is a monopoly. While selling less devices than their biggest competitor. While having a much smaller install base for their OS than Android. > They want to maximize their revenue, just like any other company and there is absolutely nothing else to it. Oh, I had no idea. > You don’t get to pick and choose which features do you want and most people don’t really care. What? Iphones have been around for more than a decade, it's well known among customers how they work and there are plenty of options from other manufacturers. Any store that can will take a cut from producers, whether that is a physical store like your local supermarket, or a digital store like Apple's. The question is why Apple users are so much more willing to spend money on software than users of other platforms, and why hackers hate that so much? How much money can an independent or boutique developer earn from Linux or Windows users, compared to Apple users?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - ffgjgf1 2y ago
      > While selling less devices than their biggest competitor That doesn’t matter that much (when taking about app developers) compared to how much money they are spending. A single iPhone user in the US and other rich countries is worth a dozen of Android users in India/African countries etc. Also even if not literally a monopoly they can effectively behave like a monopoly and abuse their position because no tech company targeting consumers can afford to not have an iOS app. > What? Iphones have been around for more than a decade, it's well known among customers how they work and there are plenty of options from other manufacturers. Not what I meant and not how it works. I’m using an iPhone in-spite of their abusive practices and restrictions because their other features/advantages compared to Android outweigh that in my case. It’s basically a shit sandwich… > why Apple users are so much more willing to spend money on software than users of other platforms Because they have more money? > How much money can an independent or boutique developer earn from Linux or Windows users, compared to Apple users? Yes, that exactly what I’m saying. Apple won (clearly because of the merits of their products) and now they can squeeze developers and consumers to a very high degree without any negative consequences. That’s how monopolies (of course it’s scale, Apple is not literally a monopoly, for that matter neither was Standard Oil back in 1906, they had a comparable market share to Apple these days) work regardless of how exactly they became one, they get to keep all the market surplus that would go to consumers in a more competitive market.
- HDThoreaun 2y ago
  No, most people still do not know about how onerous the App Store rules are.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    Nor how dangerous first-party services like iMessage still are, for zero-click exploits like Pegasus. The average iPhone user knows almost nothing about their device outside of what Apple directly markets to them as true.
detourdog 2y ago
Do you mean they don’t wan the public to know that they take 30% of sales?
- ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
  Or perhaps that prices are 43% higher as a result of Apple taking their cut.
  - detourdog 2y ago
    I would expect such a claim to be backed with facts.
    - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
      I would expect someone who wants something from someone else to formulate a polite, specific request, and to then submit the request in a manner somewhere on the spectrum between respectfully and deferentially. Unless I totally misunderstood, and you don't want anything, and are just expressing that the universe failed to live up to your expectations. In which case: my bad, sorry for the misunderstanding!
      - detourdog 2y ago
        Where did you get the 43% number is that specific enough?
        ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
        If Apple's fees cost 30% of the price, then the actual developers who make the software must raise prices to make up for Apple's fees. How much, though? One might intuitively guess 30%, bringing $1 to $1.30. But Apple will take a cut of this price increase as well: $1.30 * 70% = $0.91, so still losing money to Apple's fees. The actual amount they must raise the prices is (1 - (1 / 0.7)) = 0.428, or roughly 43%. Doing this math backwards to factor out Apple's fees yields a confirmation: $1.43 * 70% ≈ $1

pjmlp 2y ago

Having been so close to bankruptcy seemed to have tainted their behaviour, that now anything goes to protect what in the end saved them, moreso than in other companies.

ninth_ant 2y ago
No, not “moreso than in other companies” — maximizing profits is something that effectively all companies do. The difference is that smaller companies can get away with anticompetitive behaviour but there are regulations for market leaders. What Apple was allowed to do when they were a disrupter is different from what they are allowed to do with a dominant postion in the ecosystem. PS Saying all companies are greedy and would abuse a market position is not a moral defense of Apple’s behaviour, it’s a defense of antitrust regulations.

carlosjobim 2y ago

Do you know any other marketplace / reseller who puts a message: "By the way, if you book directly with the provider and cut us out, it will be cheaper"? I can fully understand Apple's position. They created the system that customers love, developers will have to pay something to get access to those customers. Apple doesn't have to explain to customers the value. Anybody who is buying or using an iPhone today knows what they're getting.

ffgjgf1 2y ago
> I can fully understand Apple's position They want to maximize their revenue, just like any other company and there is absolutely nothing else to it. > Anybody who is buying or using an iPhone today knows what they're getting. You don’t get to pick and choose which features do you want and most people don’t really care. Anybody who is buying or using an iPhone today knows what they're getting. That’s what allows Apple to abuse their position as a quasi-monopoly (as a platform for app developers adjusted by user spending they are effectively that in multiple markets).
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  It's repeated again and again among hackers that Apple is a monopoly. While selling less devices than their biggest competitor. While having a much smaller install base for their OS than Android. > They want to maximize their revenue, just like any other company and there is absolutely nothing else to it. Oh, I had no idea. > You don’t get to pick and choose which features do you want and most people don’t really care. What? Iphones have been around for more than a decade, it's well known among customers how they work and there are plenty of options from other manufacturers. Any store that can will take a cut from producers, whether that is a physical store like your local supermarket, or a digital store like Apple's. The question is why Apple users are so much more willing to spend money on software than users of other platforms, and why hackers hate that so much? How much money can an independent or boutique developer earn from Linux or Windows users, compared to Apple users?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - ffgjgf1 2y ago
    > While selling less devices than their biggest competitor That doesn’t matter that much (when taking about app developers) compared to how much money they are spending. A single iPhone user in the US and other rich countries is worth a dozen of Android users in India/African countries etc. Also even if not literally a monopoly they can effectively behave like a monopoly and abuse their position because no tech company targeting consumers can afford to not have an iOS app. > What? Iphones have been around for more than a decade, it's well known among customers how they work and there are plenty of options from other manufacturers. Not what I meant and not how it works. I’m using an iPhone in-spite of their abusive practices and restrictions because their other features/advantages compared to Android outweigh that in my case. It’s basically a shit sandwich… > why Apple users are so much more willing to spend money on software than users of other platforms Because they have more money? > How much money can an independent or boutique developer earn from Linux or Windows users, compared to Apple users? Yes, that exactly what I’m saying. Apple won (clearly because of the merits of their products) and now they can squeeze developers and consumers to a very high degree without any negative consequences. That’s how monopolies (of course it’s scale, Apple is not literally a monopoly, for that matter neither was Standard Oil back in 1906, they had a comparable market share to Apple these days) work regardless of how exactly they became one, they get to keep all the market surplus that would go to consumers in a more competitive market.
HDThoreaun 2y ago
No, most people still do not know about how onerous the App Store rules are.
- talldayo 2y ago
  Nor how dangerous first-party services like iMessage still are, for zero-click exploits like Pegasus. The average iPhone user knows almost nothing about their device outside of what Apple directly markets to them as true.

detourdog 2y ago

Do you mean they don’t wan the public to know that they take 30% of sales?

ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
Or perhaps that prices are 43% higher as a result of Apple taking their cut.
- detourdog 2y ago
  I would expect such a claim to be backed with facts.
  - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
    I would expect someone who wants something from someone else to formulate a polite, specific request, and to then submit the request in a manner somewhere on the spectrum between respectfully and deferentially. Unless I totally misunderstood, and you don't want anything, and are just expressing that the universe failed to live up to your expectations. In which case: my bad, sorry for the misunderstanding!
    - detourdog 2y ago
      Where did you get the 43% number is that specific enough?
      - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
        If Apple's fees cost 30% of the price, then the actual developers who make the software must raise prices to make up for Apple's fees. How much, though? One might intuitively guess 30%, bringing $1 to $1.30. But Apple will take a cut of this price increase as well: $1.30 * 70% = $0.91, so still losing money to Apple's fees. The actual amount they must raise the prices is (1 - (1 / 0.7)) = 0.428, or roughly 43%. Doing this math backwards to factor out Apple's fees yields a confirmation: $1.43 * 70% ≈ $1