3 ms·

Most North American cities sadly don’t operate at the level of trust required for a system like that to work, as much as I agree it would be better for everyone

Most North American cities sadly don’t operate at the level of trust required for a system like that to work, as much as I agree it would be better for everyone.

jazzyjackson 2y ago
san francisco operates at the level of IDGAF that allows people of all income to ride buses and trams without a ticket
- itsoktocry 2y ago
  Yes, and they have a nearly-$1 billion budget deficit.
- grishka 2y ago
  The way you pay for those buses is also kinda ridiculous. You're supposed to know that it costs something like $1.75 and you're supposed to have the exact amount in cash, no change given. But maybe it changed since 2016.
bluGill 2y ago
Many cities in North America do. The key is the fine for not having a ticket is high enough that you are on average much better off having a ticket. Generally this works out to enough random inspections that the average person is checked once a month, and the fine for not having a ticket works out to the cost of a 3 month pass. The exact numbers are of course subject to debate, but the above should give any city a good starting place they can play with. IMHO, if you have fare gates they need to be tied into a parent control system so that parents to limit where their kids are allowed to go alone. I've never seen the implemented and the details are important to get right.
- ikety 2y ago
  Now you have to collect those fines. Good luck with that. Only true frictionless solution is fully state funded.
- exitb 2y ago
  Where I live, I'd be far better off not buying the tickets. The fine is less than 2 months with a pass and I'm checked 2-3 times a year. Yet most of these checks don't find anyone without a ticket. Monthly ticket costs about 1.5% of average monthly income for that city, less than 4% of minimal wage. I'm quite convinced that reasonable pricing is the key.
  - tracker1 2y ago
    That's probably a significant part of it. Also accessibility of the monthly passes. I used to live near a rail stop in Tempe/Phx area, and would use it when I had to go to the airport or to Downtown Phx as it was easier than dealing with parking. The ticket kiosks were a bit of a pain, but easy enough, widely available and not overly expensive. I didn't use it that much, but did see ticket checks on one of the trips, nobody was without one.

Most North American cities sadly don’t operate at the level of trust required for a system like that to work, as much as I agree it would be better for everyone.

jazzyjackson 2y ago

san francisco operates at the level of IDGAF that allows people of all income to ride buses and trams without a ticket

itsoktocry 2y ago
Yes, and they have a nearly-$1 billion budget deficit.
grishka 2y ago
The way you pay for those buses is also kinda ridiculous. You're supposed to know that it costs something like $1.75 and you're supposed to have the exact amount in cash, no change given. But maybe it changed since 2016.

bluGill 2y ago

Many cities in North America do. The key is the fine for not having a ticket is high enough that you are on average much better off having a ticket. Generally this works out to enough random inspections that the average person is checked once a month, and the fine for not having a ticket works out to the cost of a 3 month pass. The exact numbers are of course subject to debate, but the above should give any city a good starting place they can play with. IMHO, if you have fare gates they need to be tied into a parent control system so that parents to limit where their kids are allowed to go alone. I've never seen the implemented and the details are important to get right.

ikety 2y ago
Now you have to collect those fines. Good luck with that. Only true frictionless solution is fully state funded.
exitb 2y ago
Where I live, I'd be far better off not buying the tickets. The fine is less than 2 months with a pass and I'm checked 2-3 times a year. Yet most of these checks don't find anyone without a ticket. Monthly ticket costs about 1.5% of average monthly income for that city, less than 4% of minimal wage. I'm quite convinced that reasonable pricing is the key.
- tracker1 2y ago
  That's probably a significant part of it. Also accessibility of the monthly passes. I used to live near a rail stop in Tempe/Phx area, and would use it when I had to go to the airport or to Downtown Phx as it was easier than dealing with parking. The ticket kiosks were a bit of a pain, but easy enough, widely available and not overly expensive. I didn't use it that much, but did see ticket checks on one of the trips, nobody was without one.