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The general argument is that the changes end up being annoying. Simplest example would be 1st party apps only vs including 3rd party apps. Clearly there are im

The general argument is that the changes end up being annoying. Simplest example would be 1st party apps only vs including 3rd party apps. Clearly there are implications around including 3rd party apps that would affect the operating system and thus user experience

alt227 2y ago
I never understand this argument. iPhones can still come with Safari installed and used by default, no changes to anyones experience at all. But if I want to go to the app store, install a different browser engine, and set it as default, how does that affect any users that are just using the default device as supplied to them? There is no reason at all to hinder this choice. It does not affect 1st party apps, or how the device works by default. It just allows choice for those who want to explore it.
- robertfall 2y ago
  In the EU Safari is no longer used by default. You're forced to choose a browser when setting up the phone.
- jstsch 2y ago
  > iPhones can still come with Safari installed and used by default, no changes to anyones experience at all. No, this is not allowed and currently also not the case. When you're setting up a new iPhone, one of the questions during setup is which browser do you want to use.
  - alt227 2y ago
    Then IMO this went too far. All they needed to do was allow people to doanload alternatives if they want them.
    - gbalduzzi 2y ago
      EU did this to Microsoft years ago to disrupt the internet explorer monopoly. It wouldn't be fair to not demand Apple and Google to do the same now
      - alt227 2y ago
        I agree, except Windows had a massive PC monopoly back then. Apple doesnt have nearly that same monopoly today. It shares it with Google and in some markets it lags behind Googles user numbers.
        gbalduzzi 2y ago
        The point is to prevent monopoly from happening
- endisneigh 2y ago
  Suppose there were a rule that there could be no defaults ever, and all of the apps are randomly arranged in the App Store for the sake of fairness. Your argument would be equally true, you could just scroll and scroll until you find the app you’re looking for, but surely you’d agree the experience would be worse?
- slashdave 2y ago
  Because web sites will start using Chrome only features and stick a big box over the page insisting the user switch. Unless, of course, you want to pass complete control over web standards to Google.
Novosell 2y ago
That's not very clear to me. How would it affect anything?
- endisneigh 2y ago
  If there were no 3rd party apps everything else could be coupled, no App Store, etc. Depending on particular user design goals, the experience could be far superior at the expense of being limited.

alt227 2y ago

I never understand this argument. iPhones can still come with Safari installed and used by default, no changes to anyones experience at all. But if I want to go to the app store, install a different browser engine, and set it as default, how does that affect any users that are just using the default device as supplied to them? There is no reason at all to hinder this choice. It does not affect 1st party apps, or how the device works by default. It just allows choice for those who want to explore it.

robertfall 2y ago
In the EU Safari is no longer used by default. You're forced to choose a browser when setting up the phone.
jstsch 2y ago
> iPhones can still come with Safari installed and used by default, no changes to anyones experience at all. No, this is not allowed and currently also not the case. When you're setting up a new iPhone, one of the questions during setup is which browser do you want to use.
- alt227 2y ago
  Then IMO this went too far. All they needed to do was allow people to doanload alternatives if they want them.
  - gbalduzzi 2y ago
    EU did this to Microsoft years ago to disrupt the internet explorer monopoly. It wouldn't be fair to not demand Apple and Google to do the same now
    - alt227 2y ago
      I agree, except Windows had a massive PC monopoly back then. Apple doesnt have nearly that same monopoly today. It shares it with Google and in some markets it lags behind Googles user numbers.
      - gbalduzzi 2y ago
        The point is to prevent monopoly from happening
endisneigh 2y ago
Suppose there were a rule that there could be no defaults ever, and all of the apps are randomly arranged in the App Store for the sake of fairness. Your argument would be equally true, you could just scroll and scroll until you find the app you’re looking for, but surely you’d agree the experience would be worse?
slashdave 2y ago
Because web sites will start using Chrome only features and stick a big box over the page insisting the user switch. Unless, of course, you want to pass complete control over web standards to Google.

Novosell 2y ago

That's not very clear to me. How would it affect anything?

endisneigh 2y ago
If there were no 3rd party apps everything else could be coupled, no App Store, etc. Depending on particular user design goals, the experience could be far superior at the expense of being limited.