6 ms·

Up to 78M batteries will be discarded daily by 2025, researchers warn

43 points by teleforce 2y ago

lmpdev 2y ago
I wonder how many are Zinc Carbon that consumers erroneously buy not realising they are 40-50% the capacity of an alkaline Yes Zinc Carbon is better to end up in landfill hazardous materials wise, but the amount of carbon dioxide expended in their production must be enormous globally Shout out to Ikea selling rebadged Eneloops for ~2-3x cheaper than Panasonic
- codetrotter 2y ago
  > Shout out to Ikea selling rebadged Eneloops for ~2-3x cheaper than Panasonic For anyone else looking it’s probably the “LADDA” batteries. https://www.ikea.com/es/en/cat/batteries-battery-chargers-41070/ https://www.ikea.com/es/en/cat/batteries-battery-chargers-41... They have AA and AAA sizes.
  - jsheard 2y ago
    The trick is to examine the packaging and see where they were manufactured, if they were made in Japan then you know they are from the Eneloop factory because that's the only AA/AAA manufacturer in Japan, and if they're made anywhere else then they are from some other mystery supplier. I think IKEA dual sources LADDA from Japan and China now so you have to check.
blueflow 2y ago
Society should evaluate which devices actually need to run on batteries. It makes me feel odd if i have to replace the batteries in a wall clock that is like half a meter next to a power socket. Wall clocks never get moved around...
- dgan 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - FpUser 2y ago
    We do have various regulations. More of those come each year. Have nothing to do with communism. Alternatively - "capitalize profits and socialize losses" is just as bad I think and looks very "communistic".
    - admissionsguy 2y ago
      The gradual increase in regulation and the corresponding size of the government has everything to do with communism. How do you think we have reached 40% in marginal income tax rates?
      - ses1984 2y ago
        Gtfo. Tax rates are much higher in other nations with a higher standard of living. Tax rates used to be much higher on higher income earners when our standard of living was relatively higher. I’m not necessarily saying we should increase taxes (we should) but your citation of that statistic means nothing.
        robertlagrant 2y ago
        You're using a different benchmark: standard of living. I'm not sure it's a good one, given it isn't necessarily that linked to taxes, but either way, you're not arguing that the government taxing more doesn't look a lot like the communist countries of the 20th century (which is what I assume what the OP meant by "communist").
        admissionsguy 2y ago
        Pretty much. Communism is one end of a spectrum where the governments controls the entire economic activity. When the government manages 40% of my earnings, we are 40% there (to first order approximation, of course there are other factors).
bArray 2y ago
If you think that is bad, wait until we need to start decommissioning electric vehicles on scale. I've worked on fossil fuel vehicle EOL for quite a while and a very large amount of recycling happens, there is literally zero waste. Nobody I know wants to do the same for electric vehicles, they are simply too dangerous.
- Maakuth 2y ago
  The batteries shouldn't be taken apart without proper equipment and processes. Disconnecting them from the vehicle though is not that complicated. I think the decommissioned batteries are going to be sent to specialized facilities while the rest of the vehicles will go through the same recycling process as the ICE cars do now. Most of the battery material is going to recyclable and thus fairly valuable, so there's some economic incentive in there too.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > If you think that is bad, wait until we need to start decommissioning electric vehicles on scale. There are plans on re-purposing these for grid storage or used-new packs for vehicles, or recycling them to make new batteries. Sadly Google is polluted with weird SEO blogs and other crap, so here's at least one report from a credible source [1]. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/29/heres-how-ev-batteries-can-be-given-a-second-life.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/29/heres-how-ev-batteries-can-b...
- tecleandor 2y ago
  I don't have a number, and probably it's completely unintuitive, but at least as of today I'm more concerned about disposable stuff, like one-use vape devices and that stuff, where also there's like little incentive to recycle. At least big (EV vehicle) batteries have a bigger value. Around Europe I'm seeying a bunch of companies testing and selling second hand EV car battery packs that are at 60 to 85% of their capacity. Some can be used to repair a car, some other for projects that aren't that concerned by the energy density per kg of the batteries (stationary deployments, for example at home). And they're real cheap.
- Asmod4n 2y ago
jsheard 2y ago
Hopefully they get around to banning disposable vapes sooner rather than later, the needless waste with those is just ridiculous. All vapes use lithium batteries due to their high current requirements, but the disposable ones simply have no way to recharge the battery. Not to mention the fire risk, the vape juice usually runs out before the battery fully discharges so they end up being thrown away still partially charged, which makes them more unstable and eager to catch fire if they get damaged during processing. https://nfcc.org.uk/over-1200-battery-fires-in-bin-lorries-and-waste-sites-across-the-uk-in-last-year/ https://nfcc.org.uk/over-1200-battery-fires-in-bin-lorries-a...
- freitzkriesler2 2y ago
  Disposable vapes use C grade lithium batteries that are otherwise low quality and would have been discarded anyway since they're already mostly used and not good enough to go into any other applications.
  - elaus 2y ago
    Though I'm sure it's much easier to recycle those c grade batteries directly after they are sorted out after production, instead of when they are inside an old vape, inside a container with all the other trash.
    - detritus 2y ago
      Or, if the streets of London are anything to go by - the pavement. I find it immensely telling that the vast majority of these things (ie. the popular flavoured kinds) are banned in the country that produces them.
    - freitzkriesler2 2y ago
      I work in battery manufacturing and it's not. The type of cells used in vapes are Lithiun iron phosphate. Once you open the cells up, they're essentially rust. There is some material that can be pulled from them but companies pay to remove them because the cost of extraction is more Than the cost of using fresh materials. This is the dirty secret regarding lithium cells. At the very least, using C grade cells in this manner ensures a working product gets used for some application even if it is disposable. Take solice in the fact that when you throw batteries out in landfill trash that most are picked up by high powered magnets and are separated out for recycling.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
windex 2y ago
It's batteries plus the devices they are in. Its maddening to see how many perfectly good devices get thrown out because of dead batteries.
tombert 2y ago
I don’t know anything about economics, so consider this disclaimer, but if it’s a concern that the 78M batteries per day is a problem, then maybe we should tax batteries a lot more now to control for externalities?
pcdoodle 2y ago
We need a standard size and connection layout for smaller devices. Something with built in protection so the end users can be careless with them. I hope to one day see a few rectangular ones (Like old smart phones) and a few cylindrical (something besides 18650 / 21700).
tmaly 2y ago
There was a post on HN a few years back about an MIT researcher making batteries out of more common materials. Just like packaging, I think more needs to be done to make materials that are easier to recycle with lower amounts of effort and energy.
PaulKeeble 2y ago
There are so many devices that are made without replaceable batteries its becoming a real problem. I want an electric toothbrush that takes 18650 or similar cells, same with a shaver and just about every other small powered tool we need replaceable batteries as the device lasts longer than the cells do and it makes recycling the cells harder.

43 points by teleforce 2y ago

I wonder how many are Zinc Carbon that consumers erroneously buy not realising they are 40-50% the capacity of an alkaline Yes Zinc Carbon is better to end up in landfill hazardous materials wise, but the amount of carbon dioxide expended in their production must be enormous globally Shout out to Ikea selling rebadged Eneloops for ~2-3x cheaper than Panasonic

codetrotter 2y ago
> Shout out to Ikea selling rebadged Eneloops for ~2-3x cheaper than Panasonic For anyone else looking it’s probably the “LADDA” batteries. https://www.ikea.com/es/en/cat/batteries-battery-chargers-41070/ https://www.ikea.com/es/en/cat/batteries-battery-chargers-41... They have AA and AAA sizes.
- jsheard 2y ago
  The trick is to examine the packaging and see where they were manufactured, if they were made in Japan then you know they are from the Eneloop factory because that's the only AA/AAA manufacturer in Japan, and if they're made anywhere else then they are from some other mystery supplier. I think IKEA dual sources LADDA from Japan and China now so you have to check.

blueflow 2y ago

Society should evaluate which devices actually need to run on batteries. It makes me feel odd if i have to replace the batteries in a wall clock that is like half a meter next to a power socket. Wall clocks never get moved around...

dgan 2y ago
[flagged]
- FpUser 2y ago
  We do have various regulations. More of those come each year. Have nothing to do with communism. Alternatively - "capitalize profits and socialize losses" is just as bad I think and looks very "communistic".
  - admissionsguy 2y ago
    The gradual increase in regulation and the corresponding size of the government has everything to do with communism. How do you think we have reached 40% in marginal income tax rates?
    - ses1984 2y ago
      Gtfo. Tax rates are much higher in other nations with a higher standard of living. Tax rates used to be much higher on higher income earners when our standard of living was relatively higher. I’m not necessarily saying we should increase taxes (we should) but your citation of that statistic means nothing.
      - robertlagrant 2y ago
        You're using a different benchmark: standard of living. I'm not sure it's a good one, given it isn't necessarily that linked to taxes, but either way, you're not arguing that the government taxing more doesn't look a lot like the communist countries of the 20th century (which is what I assume what the OP meant by "communist").
        admissionsguy 2y ago
        Pretty much. Communism is one end of a spectrum where the governments controls the entire economic activity. When the government manages 40% of my earnings, we are 40% there (to first order approximation, of course there are other factors).

bArray 2y ago

If you think that is bad, wait until we need to start decommissioning electric vehicles on scale. I've worked on fossil fuel vehicle EOL for quite a while and a very large amount of recycling happens, there is literally zero waste. Nobody I know wants to do the same for electric vehicles, they are simply too dangerous.

Maakuth 2y ago
The batteries shouldn't be taken apart without proper equipment and processes. Disconnecting them from the vehicle though is not that complicated. I think the decommissioned batteries are going to be sent to specialized facilities while the rest of the vehicles will go through the same recycling process as the ICE cars do now. Most of the battery material is going to recyclable and thus fairly valuable, so there's some economic incentive in there too.
mschuster91 2y ago
> If you think that is bad, wait until we need to start decommissioning electric vehicles on scale. There are plans on re-purposing these for grid storage or used-new packs for vehicles, or recycling them to make new batteries. Sadly Google is polluted with weird SEO blogs and other crap, so here's at least one report from a credible source [1]. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/29/heres-how-ev-batteries-can-be-given-a-second-life.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/29/heres-how-ev-batteries-can-b...
tecleandor 2y ago
I don't have a number, and probably it's completely unintuitive, but at least as of today I'm more concerned about disposable stuff, like one-use vape devices and that stuff, where also there's like little incentive to recycle. At least big (EV vehicle) batteries have a bigger value. Around Europe I'm seeying a bunch of companies testing and selling second hand EV car battery packs that are at 60 to 85% of their capacity. Some can be used to repair a car, some other for projects that aren't that concerned by the energy density per kg of the batteries (stationary deployments, for example at home). And they're real cheap.
Asmod4n 2y ago

jsheard 2y ago

Hopefully they get around to banning disposable vapes sooner rather than later, the needless waste with those is just ridiculous. All vapes use lithium batteries due to their high current requirements, but the disposable ones simply have no way to recharge the battery. Not to mention the fire risk, the vape juice usually runs out before the battery fully discharges so they end up being thrown away still partially charged, which makes them more unstable and eager to catch fire if they get damaged during processing. https://nfcc.org.uk/over-1200-battery-fires-in-bin-lorries-and-waste-sites-across-the-uk-in-last-year/ https://nfcc.org.uk/over-1200-battery-fires-in-bin-lorries-a...

freitzkriesler2 2y ago
Disposable vapes use C grade lithium batteries that are otherwise low quality and would have been discarded anyway since they're already mostly used and not good enough to go into any other applications.
- elaus 2y ago
  Though I'm sure it's much easier to recycle those c grade batteries directly after they are sorted out after production, instead of when they are inside an old vape, inside a container with all the other trash.
  - detritus 2y ago
    Or, if the streets of London are anything to go by - the pavement. I find it immensely telling that the vast majority of these things (ie. the popular flavoured kinds) are banned in the country that produces them.
  - freitzkriesler2 2y ago
    I work in battery manufacturing and it's not. The type of cells used in vapes are Lithiun iron phosphate. Once you open the cells up, they're essentially rust. There is some material that can be pulled from them but companies pay to remove them because the cost of extraction is more Than the cost of using fresh materials. This is the dirty secret regarding lithium cells. At the very least, using C grade cells in this manner ensures a working product gets used for some application even if it is disposable. Take solice in the fact that when you throw batteries out in landfill trash that most are picked up by high powered magnets and are separated out for recycling.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

windex 2y ago

It's batteries plus the devices they are in. Its maddening to see how many perfectly good devices get thrown out because of dead batteries.

tombert 2y ago

I don’t know anything about economics, so consider this disclaimer, but if it’s a concern that the 78M batteries per day is a problem, then maybe we should tax batteries a lot more now to control for externalities?

pcdoodle 2y ago

We need a standard size and connection layout for smaller devices. Something with built in protection so the end users can be careless with them. I hope to one day see a few rectangular ones (Like old smart phones) and a few cylindrical (something besides 18650 / 21700).

tmaly 2y ago

There was a post on HN a few years back about an MIT researcher making batteries out of more common materials. Just like packaging, I think more needs to be done to make materials that are easier to recycle with lower amounts of effort and energy.

PaulKeeble 2y ago

There are so many devices that are made without replaceable batteries its becoming a real problem. I want an electric toothbrush that takes 18650 or similar cells, same with a shaver and just about every other small powered tool we need replaceable batteries as the device lasts longer than the cells do and it makes recycling the cells harder.