7 ms·

Two of the best parts, to me, about electric cars are: 1) lower pollution where people live, so you can go for runs and such without breathing in a bunch of no

Two of the best parts, to me, about electric cars are: 1) lower pollution where people live, so you can go for runs and such without breathing in a bunch of noxious gas 2) how much quieter inner city walking will become. It can’t come fast enough!

fire_lake 2y ago
Big improvements, but keep in mind that air and tyre resistance are the loudest aspects of driving at even moderate speeds.
- alan-hn 2y ago
  And that pollution of tire degradation is one of the biggest sources of particles from cars
  - guntars 2y ago
    Don’t forget the brakes. When the rotors get worn down, where did they go?
    - MVissers 2y ago
      Not a big issue with evs, most use regenerative breaking.
      - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
        As do hybrids! Even mild hybrids like those new pickups
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      The rotors aren't the problem, the pads are. Rotors are just cast iron, and they wear very slowly compared to the pads.
  - georgeburdell 2y ago
    Do you have a source for that claim? Typically I see breakdowns by chemical formula
    - uolmir 2y ago
      For example, https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyre... https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/07/09/tire-brake-tailpipes-emissions-pollution-cars/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/07/0...
- pwatsonwailes 2y ago
  This. People always underestimate how much noise rolling resistance of tyres plays in the sound profile of traffic. Electric cars are worse under 50mph, basically because they're heavier.
  - bojan 2y ago
    Electric cars start and accelerate noiselessly - both very common activities in the inner city driving.
    - Spivak 2y ago
      The parent's point is that the engine isn't the largest contributor of noise. At low speeds the engine noise dominates, at "high" (meaning normal driving speeds) speeds the tire noise dominates. Go listen to a highway and see if you can hear the engines over the wooshing.
      - Retric 2y ago
        Cars in cities rarely travel quickly, spending lot’s of time stopped at traffic lights right where people cross the street or stuck in traffic. The squeal of a worn out brake pads is largely mitigated by regenerative breaks which increase brake lifespan.
        bobthepanda 2y ago
        There are a lot of highways in American inner cities.
        Retric 2y ago
        Those are frequently Highways in name only. If people are doing 2-3 mph in stop and go traffic it might as well have stop lights. Thus the frequent use of bypasses so people on long trips can actually get someplace quickly even if the distance increases.
- jlund-molfese 2y ago
  Maybe inside of a regular electric car, but the worst noise pollution in cities comes from cars and motorcycles with modified exhaust and incessant honking. Cars are loud and that's a problem by itself, but a car with a bad driver is exponentially worse than one with a normal driver.
  - noahtallen 2y ago
    That’s one part, but the other massive part is noise from freeways and the baseline white noise from faster roads, where most of the noise comes from tires. EVs are not better (and typically worse since they’re heavier) — the only way to fix it is 1. No freeways in city centers. 2. Fewer cars. 3. Noise barriers. 4. Asphalt that reduces tire noise (uncommon in North American cities, where concrete is used to improve the lifespan). I can’t use my balcony in a downtown city center because the baseline tire noise from the highway is so loud, and that’s without the obnoxious exhaust
- ravetcofx 2y ago
  Yup,Electric cars aren't quieter at all compared to movement I.C.E cars. Speeds need to be lowered to 35km/hr or lower.
- jameshart 2y ago
  In residential and downtown areas, the sound is going to be dominated by engine idling, pulling away, and low speed cruising. It's ridiculous to argue that electric motors aren't a massive improvement in all of these cases.
- npteljes 2y ago
  Must really depend on the speed, because the experience I have with ICE vs electric at Europe city speeds, electric vehicles seem practically silent.
Theodores 2y ago
I have been a proponent of electric cars but the way it has panned out has made me less enthusiastic. Really it is just about showing you have a six figure salary and nothing to do with being kind to the planet. My new phrase is 'active travel' and this means walking, cycling or using a wheelchair. The opposite of 'active travel' is car dependency. For the car dependent person, walking is something you do after driving to the car park in the beauty spot, to get the boots out the back of the car and do 'hiking' as a leisure exercise, to not actually do anything of purpose. Cycling is the same, a bicycle is just a toy for leisure, with a piece of polystyrene having to be worn on the head. In the world of 'active travel' the walk is to the shops or to see a friend. It is the same with cycling, rather than pointlessly ride on a 'toy', it is a trip to work or the shops, a journey of purpose. With 'active travel' there is community. You meet people old and new on the journeys you take and you can stop and talk. Car dependent people can honk their horns and wave, but that is quite primitive communication compared to saying hello. Just today I met someone on the canal towpath that is cycling coast to coast, having met him a couple of days ago too. It was great to see him again, and that was just one interaction on my journey. I had to get somewhere so I did not stop to talk for too long, but you just don't have those sorts of interactions if trapped in a tin box, electric or otherwise. Yes there might be cup holders, air conditioning and massaging heated seats, but I prefer the community aspect of 'active travel'. When people go car dependent they take themselves out of being part of the community. A huge part of this is noise levels. Sometimes I use turn by turn directions on my phone, and, if I am on towpaths, the volume of 'after 200 yards, turn right' is embarrassingly loud. Yet, if I have the same volume and I am on a normal road, I make wrong turns because the noise of cars, even at a low speed on quiet roads, is too loud for me to hear the turn by turn directions. Only if spending hours on canal towpaths and former railway tracks turned into cycle paths so you realise how absurd the noise of car dependency is. Another phrase is 'livable neighbourhoods' and the idea is to put active travel first so there is a return to community and health. Sadly, electric cars are a folly. I don't hate on them, I have just discovered 'active travel'. Incidentally, 'active travel' depends on health, and that means either being young or eating for nutrition. You can't walk your way out of a bad diet, or cycle out of it. There is a whole lot we need to work out and electric cars, sadly, are not it, not even for people that live in the countryside, have a dozen kids and a job a hundred miles away.
ipqk 2y ago
Sorry, but most car pollution is from the tires/tyres, not the exhaust. Electric cars don't solve that, and may even make it worse because they're heavier. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyre...
- phatfish 2y ago
  The parent was worried about "noxious gas", not rubber particles. Cars with an ICE have tires as well, unfortunately.
  - ipqk 2y ago
    Tires are only about 25% natural rubber; the rest is synthetic rubber, heavy metals, plastics, and additives. These get emitted as fine particulates that stick around in the air. They may not technically be a gas, but we breathe it in just the same.
    - jiggawatts 2y ago
      I very much doubt that heavy metals such as mercury or lead are used to make tyres. I've only ever heard of steel belted tyres. It used to be that wheels were balanced with small lead weights, but the use of lead for this has been banned in pretty much every western country, and wasn't contributing to road dust even when they were allowed.
      - ipqk 2y ago
        "Hundreds of other ingredients, including steel, fillers, and heavy metals — including copper, cadmium, lead, and zinc — make up the rest, many of them added to enhance performance, improve durability, and reduce the possibility of fires." https://e360.yale.edu/features/tire-pollution-toxic-chemicals https://e360.yale.edu/features/tire-pollution-toxic-chemical...
        2y ago
silisili 2y ago
Most road noise and even pollution comes from tires, not a gas burning engine. I lived about a half mile from an xway once. You'd hear an occasional jake brake or loud motorcycle, but by far the most annoying thing was the constant whooshing noises of normal cars passing by.
kiba 2y ago
The best car is actually no car. No EV, not just ICE means no noise or tire pollution.
maskros 2y ago
Then you haven't heard electric cars running at low speed or put in reverse. Try to chill near any space where EVs frequent (like near a parking lot or train station with lots of traffic) and it's a constant source of artificial speaker noise: WHIRR! WHINE! HUM! LOOK AT ME I'M ELECTRIC WITH A BIG SPEAKER! WHINE! WHIRR! BING, BING, BING, BING, BING! LOOK OUT HERE I COME IN REVERSE! BING! (The Ioniq 5 is a particularly bad offender here ... the reversing bing can be heard multiple blocks away). I wish EV auto-makers would turn the default warning noise levels their cars emit WAY THE FUCK DOWN because it's seriously annoying! I get not wanting to startle pedestrians, but you don't have to alert the entire neighborhood...
- nicoburns 2y ago
  > I wish EV auto-makers would turn the default warning noise levels their cars emit WAY THE FUCK DOWN because it's seriously annoying! I get not wanting to startle pedestrians, but you don't have to alert the entire neighborhood... I'm pretty sure this is a legal requirement not something the EV manufacturers are choosing to do. Although I guess this may vary by juristiction.
  - ChainOfFools 2y ago
    Well it can be both can't it. Car makers, conceding that they have to incorporate some sort of non-startle noise if they're building an ev, decide to lean into it and pretty soon the pr and marketing departments are trying to come up with the most "distinctive" non-startle branding sound possible, and we're off to the juvenile arms race of noise making one-upsmanship again.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
  It's cause otherwise "EVs are silently running over kids becomes another "we need incandescent traffic lights because for a couple weeks in winter LEDs don't melt snow"
- lugoues 2y ago
  The legislation requiring this is silly, are there any studies at all which shows it reduces harm... I couldn't find any. It would seem safer for children, and the population as a whole, if they banned vehicles which don't provide adequate front visibility. Maybe even require sensors that will prevent the vehicle from moving from a stop if something is detected in front.
soperj 2y ago
As someone who bikes regularly, electric cars seem almost noisier than regular driving gas counter parts, I don't know if's because they're heavier or what, but when they're moving at regular traffic speeds, they are not remotely quiet.
- kfarr 2y ago
  Sometimes you can even feel bigger evs as vibration, they're like light duty trucks

fire_lake 2y ago

Big improvements, but keep in mind that air and tyre resistance are the loudest aspects of driving at even moderate speeds.

alan-hn 2y ago
And that pollution of tire degradation is one of the biggest sources of particles from cars
- guntars 2y ago
  Don’t forget the brakes. When the rotors get worn down, where did they go?
  - MVissers 2y ago
    Not a big issue with evs, most use regenerative breaking.
    - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
      As do hybrids! Even mild hybrids like those new pickups
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    The rotors aren't the problem, the pads are. Rotors are just cast iron, and they wear very slowly compared to the pads.
- georgeburdell 2y ago
  Do you have a source for that claim? Typically I see breakdowns by chemical formula
  - uolmir 2y ago
    For example, https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyre... https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/07/09/tire-brake-tailpipes-emissions-pollution-cars/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/07/0...
pwatsonwailes 2y ago
This. People always underestimate how much noise rolling resistance of tyres plays in the sound profile of traffic. Electric cars are worse under 50mph, basically because they're heavier.
- bojan 2y ago
  Electric cars start and accelerate noiselessly - both very common activities in the inner city driving.
  - Spivak 2y ago
    The parent's point is that the engine isn't the largest contributor of noise. At low speeds the engine noise dominates, at "high" (meaning normal driving speeds) speeds the tire noise dominates. Go listen to a highway and see if you can hear the engines over the wooshing.
    - Retric 2y ago
      Cars in cities rarely travel quickly, spending lot’s of time stopped at traffic lights right where people cross the street or stuck in traffic. The squeal of a worn out brake pads is largely mitigated by regenerative breaks which increase brake lifespan.
      - bobthepanda 2y ago
        There are a lot of highways in American inner cities.
        Retric 2y ago
        Those are frequently Highways in name only. If people are doing 2-3 mph in stop and go traffic it might as well have stop lights. Thus the frequent use of bypasses so people on long trips can actually get someplace quickly even if the distance increases.
jlund-molfese 2y ago
Maybe inside of a regular electric car, but the worst noise pollution in cities comes from cars and motorcycles with modified exhaust and incessant honking. Cars are loud and that's a problem by itself, but a car with a bad driver is exponentially worse than one with a normal driver.
- noahtallen 2y ago
  That’s one part, but the other massive part is noise from freeways and the baseline white noise from faster roads, where most of the noise comes from tires. EVs are not better (and typically worse since they’re heavier) — the only way to fix it is 1. No freeways in city centers. 2. Fewer cars. 3. Noise barriers. 4. Asphalt that reduces tire noise (uncommon in North American cities, where concrete is used to improve the lifespan). I can’t use my balcony in a downtown city center because the baseline tire noise from the highway is so loud, and that’s without the obnoxious exhaust
ravetcofx 2y ago
Yup,Electric cars aren't quieter at all compared to movement I.C.E cars. Speeds need to be lowered to 35km/hr or lower.
jameshart 2y ago
In residential and downtown areas, the sound is going to be dominated by engine idling, pulling away, and low speed cruising. It's ridiculous to argue that electric motors aren't a massive improvement in all of these cases.
npteljes 2y ago
Must really depend on the speed, because the experience I have with ICE vs electric at Europe city speeds, electric vehicles seem practically silent.

Theodores 2y ago

I have been a proponent of electric cars but the way it has panned out has made me less enthusiastic. Really it is just about showing you have a six figure salary and nothing to do with being kind to the planet. My new phrase is 'active travel' and this means walking, cycling or using a wheelchair. The opposite of 'active travel' is car dependency. For the car dependent person, walking is something you do after driving to the car park in the beauty spot, to get the boots out the back of the car and do 'hiking' as a leisure exercise, to not actually do anything of purpose. Cycling is the same, a bicycle is just a toy for leisure, with a piece of polystyrene having to be worn on the head. In the world of 'active travel' the walk is to the shops or to see a friend. It is the same with cycling, rather than pointlessly ride on a 'toy', it is a trip to work or the shops, a journey of purpose. With 'active travel' there is community. You meet people old and new on the journeys you take and you can stop and talk. Car dependent people can honk their horns and wave, but that is quite primitive communication compared to saying hello. Just today I met someone on the canal towpath that is cycling coast to coast, having met him a couple of days ago too. It was great to see him again, and that was just one interaction on my journey. I had to get somewhere so I did not stop to talk for too long, but you just don't have those sorts of interactions if trapped in a tin box, electric or otherwise. Yes there might be cup holders, air conditioning and massaging heated seats, but I prefer the community aspect of 'active travel'. When people go car dependent they take themselves out of being part of the community. A huge part of this is noise levels. Sometimes I use turn by turn directions on my phone, and, if I am on towpaths, the volume of 'after 200 yards, turn right' is embarrassingly loud. Yet, if I have the same volume and I am on a normal road, I make wrong turns because the noise of cars, even at a low speed on quiet roads, is too loud for me to hear the turn by turn directions. Only if spending hours on canal towpaths and former railway tracks turned into cycle paths so you realise how absurd the noise of car dependency is. Another phrase is 'livable neighbourhoods' and the idea is to put active travel first so there is a return to community and health. Sadly, electric cars are a folly. I don't hate on them, I have just discovered 'active travel'. Incidentally, 'active travel' depends on health, and that means either being young or eating for nutrition. You can't walk your way out of a bad diet, or cycle out of it. There is a whole lot we need to work out and electric cars, sadly, are not it, not even for people that live in the countryside, have a dozen kids and a job a hundred miles away.

ipqk 2y ago

Sorry, but most car pollution is from the tires/tyres, not the exhaust. Electric cars don't solve that, and may even make it worse because they're heavier. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyre...

phatfish 2y ago
The parent was worried about "noxious gas", not rubber particles. Cars with an ICE have tires as well, unfortunately.
- ipqk 2y ago
  Tires are only about 25% natural rubber; the rest is synthetic rubber, heavy metals, plastics, and additives. These get emitted as fine particulates that stick around in the air. They may not technically be a gas, but we breathe it in just the same.
  - jiggawatts 2y ago
    I very much doubt that heavy metals such as mercury or lead are used to make tyres. I've only ever heard of steel belted tyres. It used to be that wheels were balanced with small lead weights, but the use of lead for this has been banned in pretty much every western country, and wasn't contributing to road dust even when they were allowed.
    - ipqk 2y ago
      "Hundreds of other ingredients, including steel, fillers, and heavy metals — including copper, cadmium, lead, and zinc — make up the rest, many of them added to enhance performance, improve durability, and reduce the possibility of fires." https://e360.yale.edu/features/tire-pollution-toxic-chemicals https://e360.yale.edu/features/tire-pollution-toxic-chemical...
      - 2y ago

silisili 2y ago

Most road noise and even pollution comes from tires, not a gas burning engine. I lived about a half mile from an xway once. You'd hear an occasional jake brake or loud motorcycle, but by far the most annoying thing was the constant whooshing noises of normal cars passing by.

kiba 2y ago

The best car is actually no car. No EV, not just ICE means no noise or tire pollution.

maskros 2y ago

Then you haven't heard electric cars running at low speed or put in reverse. Try to chill near any space where EVs frequent (like near a parking lot or train station with lots of traffic) and it's a constant source of artificial speaker noise: WHIRR! WHINE! HUM! LOOK AT ME I'M ELECTRIC WITH A BIG SPEAKER! WHINE! WHIRR! BING, BING, BING, BING, BING! LOOK OUT HERE I COME IN REVERSE! BING! (The Ioniq 5 is a particularly bad offender here ... the reversing bing can be heard multiple blocks away). I wish EV auto-makers would turn the default warning noise levels their cars emit WAY THE FUCK DOWN because it's seriously annoying! I get not wanting to startle pedestrians, but you don't have to alert the entire neighborhood...

nicoburns 2y ago
> I wish EV auto-makers would turn the default warning noise levels their cars emit WAY THE FUCK DOWN because it's seriously annoying! I get not wanting to startle pedestrians, but you don't have to alert the entire neighborhood... I'm pretty sure this is a legal requirement not something the EV manufacturers are choosing to do. Although I guess this may vary by juristiction.
- ChainOfFools 2y ago
  Well it can be both can't it. Car makers, conceding that they have to incorporate some sort of non-startle noise if they're building an ev, decide to lean into it and pretty soon the pr and marketing departments are trying to come up with the most "distinctive" non-startle branding sound possible, and we're off to the juvenile arms race of noise making one-upsmanship again.
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
It's cause otherwise "EVs are silently running over kids becomes another "we need incandescent traffic lights because for a couple weeks in winter LEDs don't melt snow"
lugoues 2y ago
The legislation requiring this is silly, are there any studies at all which shows it reduces harm... I couldn't find any. It would seem safer for children, and the population as a whole, if they banned vehicles which don't provide adequate front visibility. Maybe even require sensors that will prevent the vehicle from moving from a stop if something is detected in front.

soperj 2y ago

As someone who bikes regularly, electric cars seem almost noisier than regular driving gas counter parts, I don't know if's because they're heavier or what, but when they're moving at regular traffic speeds, they are not remotely quiet.

kfarr 2y ago
Sometimes you can even feel bigger evs as vibration, they're like light duty trucks