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The guy is known in Italy for being very clickbait-y. What he says is usually okay but a bit exaggerated, but in the case of pizza he is wrong. This is a discu

The guy is known in Italy for being very clickbait-y. What he says is usually okay but a bit exaggerated, but in the case of pizza he is wrong. This is a discussion between him and another guy -> https://angeloforgione.com/2022/04/04/alberto-grandi-sulla-pizza-ho-detto-delle-sciocchezze/ https://angeloforgione.com/2022/04/04/alberto-grandi-sulla-p... Pizza became widespread in Italy after WW2 (thanks to emigration from Naples to the rest of Italy and tourism within Italy), and the global diffusion of pizza outside US and Italy definitely comes from the US rather than from Italy; but it got to America at the beginning of the 20th century almost a century after pizza restaurants were born in Naples.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> it got to America at the beginning of the 20th century almost a century after pizza restaurants were born in Naples Everything you’ve said is correct. The question is whether 19th-century Neapolitan pizza would be recognised, by Italians, as pizza today. The answer is a solid maybe. In Napoli, yes. Elsewhere, including in America, much less certainly. Note that I’m not suggesting people would think it’s not related to proper pizza. But if you told the average Roman or Venetian about New Jersey tomato pie [1], they’re likely to react as they would to Hawaiian pizza. Even though that product resembles pizza marinara quite closely. (Even when baked on a bubbling versus rising dough.) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trenton_tomato_pie https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trenton_tomato_pie
- bonzini 2y ago
  Seems pretty interesting and pizza-ish (unlike Chicago pizza which is only interesting). Yeah, I would call it focaccia al pomodoro perhaps. But if you consider that New York-style pizza is commonly sold by bakeries in Italy, and it's considered to be pizza (it's simply called "tall" pizza, and I think it's an independent reinvention but don't quote me on that), I think 19th century Neapolitan pizza would be okay in the rest of Italy as well. On the other hand, Hawaiian pizza is definitely pizza, the question is only whether the topping makes a good combination.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> it got to America at the beginning of the 20th century almost a century after pizza restaurants were born in Naples Everything you’ve said is correct. The question is whether 19th-century Neapolitan pizza would be recognised, by Italians, as pizza today. The answer is a solid maybe. In Napoli, yes. Elsewhere, including in America, much less certainly. Note that I’m not suggesting people would think it’s not related to proper pizza. But if you told the average Roman or Venetian about New Jersey tomato pie [1], they’re likely to react as they would to Hawaiian pizza. Even though that product resembles pizza marinara quite closely. (Even when baked on a bubbling versus rising dough.) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trenton_tomato_pie https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trenton_tomato_pie

bonzini 2y ago
Seems pretty interesting and pizza-ish (unlike Chicago pizza which is only interesting). Yeah, I would call it focaccia al pomodoro perhaps. But if you consider that New York-style pizza is commonly sold by bakeries in Italy, and it's considered to be pizza (it's simply called "tall" pizza, and I think it's an independent reinvention but don't quote me on that), I think 19th century Neapolitan pizza would be okay in the rest of Italy as well. On the other hand, Hawaiian pizza is definitely pizza, the question is only whether the topping makes a good combination.