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This wasn’t super obvious to me until later in the article but this is about the single use tickets. Neat stuff, though I can’t say I love the concept of e-was
by bobthepanda 2y ago
This wasn’t super obvious to me until later in the article but this is about the single use tickets.
Neat stuff, though I can’t say I love the concept of e-waste NFC.
- adolph 2y agoIt isn’t different from other anti-counterfeiting measures, the printing just happens to be really small and electrically react to certain frequencies. Part of the “software eating the world” story is the decreased cost of precision that enabled the hardware substrate of software to be inexpensively and ubiquitously included in any mass produced object.
- kwhitefoot 2y agoAssuming that it doesn't become litter on the street what is the actual impact of such waste?
- Teever 2y agoAll of the waste that went into producing it of course. IC fabrication produces a lot of chemical waste, and I would imagine that these ICs aren't fabbed in a place that has a great track record on pollution.
- kwhitefoot 2y agoThese devices are so tiny that presumably this is also a tiny part of IC fabrication. I'm not saying there is none, just trying get an idea of how much of a problem this really is. We also need to consider what impact any alternative solution would have. What struck me from the description of the system was that it seems that no electronics is really needed at all, a unique QR or barcode would be just as good because the back end system records the use. But that would require the installation of optical readers in a system that might not have them but does already have NFC readers. Adding those readers would add a considerable amount of e-waste too.
- kens 2y agoI don't like the e-waste aspect either, but realistically, the chip is so minuscule that the amount of waste is trivial compared to almost anything else you might discard. The chip is literally the size of a grain of salt. The other factor is that people who use tickets regularly would use the rechargeable plastic cards, rather than the disposable tickets, so the amount of waste is reduced.
- bboygravity 2y agoThe chip is the size of a grain of salt, but there's a relatively huge antenna inside made of conducting material (metal?) and glue and all that.
- gruez 2y agoall of that is probably negligible compared to how much disposable foil is used for cooking or packaging.
- lxgr 2y agoOn one hand it is probably small in comparison, but on the other hand, it seems much more feasible to reuse transit ticket ICs than e.g. food packaging. Many transit agencies do explicitly incentivize reuse, e.g. by offering cheaper fares using a reloadable contactless card and often charging a deposit for that card. Even then, many of these systems have been struggling due to the IC shortage, given the low margins these single-use tickets have to operate on. In some Asian countries, including Japan and Malaysia, it was tricky to get a new transit card for several months or even years, even though there is a deposit charge.
- idunnoman1222 2y agojust let people use their phones to open the gate
- ximus 2y agoI don't know about justifying or rationalising waste by pointing to a greater source of waste.
- muxator 2y agoAgreed! In Rome for some time now one can top up his paper NFC ticket; there is no reason to throw it away.
- tzot 2y agoYep, the ones in Athens can be refilled too.
- dheera 2y agoI feel like 99% of people would not benefit from single use public transportation tickets. Even if you are a tourist, if you use public transportation once, there is a high likelihood you will use it multiple more times, in which case it makes sense to get a regular card. Most systems let you return the card and get the deposit back if you'd like. Personally I collect the cards instead because I have a tendency to revisit cities years into the future. I just wish cities wouldn't make their cards expire so damn quickly. Wuhan's metro is nice, the cards don't expire until 10 years later. But I've found Singapore and Taipei expire within 3 years and you lose your stored money. I have this "brick" of public transit cards for about 20 cities. It feels powerful. I kind of wish I could just swipe this brick in any city and just go. Unfortunately they all interfere with each other.
- b112 2y agoI don't know how many times I've been in a city for a single day, or part of one, and have zero interest in spending precious minutes finding, buying, and returning a card. Just let me pay with coins, or a credit card in seconds, with no return work.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- dheera 2y agoI believe Singapore's public transit does support tapping a credit card directly at the gates now, but there's an annoying step of having to register your card in advance on an app before it actually works. My guess is this might be because on-the-fly credit card authorizations still take too long. Waiting 3 seconds for an EMV contactless verification would seriously hold up the line at rush hour in a country where most people live by public transit. If I were to guess, the registration is probably what enables them to pre-authorize a credit line and allow you to tap in in a fraction of a second.
- b112 2y agoInteresting, and this hypothesis shows why twmp cards might be preferred. I have no issue with temp cards, if I can buy them right at the pickup location. I once flew into a place late at night, and only stores had cards to buy, and all were closed. Duh.
- ClumsyPilot 2y agoIndeed, I didn’t know what kind of ticket we are talking about - folks please include a picture and some context in your blogs, for people from other places and countries
- kens 2y agoThe title says "Montreal" and the second photo in the blog post shows the specific ticket. I'm not sure what else I can do here.
- bobthepanda 2y agoBackground information in an article is normally presented first. Ticket in english sometimes refers to a season or monthly ticket, so it’s pretty ambiguous.
- ClumsyPilot 2y agoPhoto of the ticket / ticket machine is an obvious thing to include. Some people live on a different continents and their environment looks completely different. This is giving me same vibes as those ‘probe you are not a robot’ tests that ask you to identify things that are specific to USA’
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- mig39 2y agoThe ones I've used in the Netherlands and Portugal are similar, but can be refilled. In Portugal, you pay extra for the initial ticket, but subsequent uses are cheaper, because you are using the same physical ticket.
- lxgr 2y agoI've actually always wondered what type of system the Portugese cards use: They don't seem to be based on anything ISO 14443 (or 15693) at least, since they don't react to my phone or external reader at all.