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> But for some reason so many companies get greedy In a way, yes, but the companies aren't sentient. Seems like people in management have become more out of to

> But for some reason so many companies get greedy In a way, yes, but the companies aren't sentient. Seems like people in management have become more out of touch and shortsighted over the past 10 years. Almost to the point where deliberately disregarding the customer is a sort of badge of honor, for example the bud light thing

afavour 2y ago
I was with you until the Bud Light thing… that’s just culture war hysteria. Nothing about the product or its price has changed. Bud Light just did some Instagram promotion with a transgender influencer. I’m struggling to see that as “deliberately disregarding” their customers.
- yarg 2y ago
  They attempted to virtue signal to a market with a very low interest in beer, while at the same time pushing away anyone sick of constant virtue signalling. And who's sick of the virtue signalling? Beer drinking straight dudes. It's not just a culture war issue, it's an issue of gross incompetence in marketing and a failure to understand the demographics of their customer base.
  - CapcomGo 2y ago
    It's a culture war thing. People protesting Bud Light didn't even know what they were protesting. They saw Kid Rock shoot some beers and were all-in.
    - listenallyall 2y ago
      Videos of the transgender influencer went extremely viral. Ex-Bud Light customers knew exactly what repelled them.
  - afavour 2y ago
    The term “virtue signal” is the backbone of the argument here and I have to confess I don’t understand. They attempted to sell beer to a market with a historically low interest in beer. I don’t understand why marketing would be virtue signalling. Expanding to new markets is a thing businesses do. And we’re in an era capable of very targeted advertising, the only people who would have organically seen the ad are people who already followed that influencer so I’m still at a loss as to what the original customer base would be losing. Their experience was exactly the same, it’s nothing like the situation outlined in the article. But once it’s become a culture war issue sides must be taken. Maybe they should have anticipated right wing reactionaries capitalising on it. > And who’s sick of virtue signalling? Beer drinking straight dudes. Speak for yourself, man. It is not something that comes up in my life.
    - matrix87 2y ago
      > The term “virtue signal” is the backbone of the argument here and I have to confess I don’t understand. I don't think corporations have any standing to lecture regular people on what's moral. Corporations have literally zero moral standing For context, I'm voting for biden this year (assuming he doesn't kick the bucket first), but if these shitty soulless "brands" want to lecture me on what's right and wrong I'll just buy a competitor. Their whole marketing department can get fired for all I care (assuming they weren't already)
      - afavour 2y ago
        > I don't think corporations have any standing to lecture regular people on what's moral. Right, and my point is that I don't see where Bud Light was trying to do that. If they'd launched a nationwide ad campaign saying "Bud Light drinkers, respect trans lives", I could see the argument. But they didn't. They merely partnered with an influencer that's trans to advertise to their followers. If anything to me that seems nakedly amoral, they're just a business trying to expand their market. Existing buyers of Bud Light would never have seen the ad so they wouldn't have had any moral messages foisted upon them.
        2y ago
  - nativeit 2y ago
    > it’s an issue of gross incompetence in marketing Is it? You think companies like Budweiser were surprised when people started posting videos using their beers as target practice? You think Gillette or Nike or Kuerig suffered from the viral destruction of bought and paid-for products? Heck no, it was calculated precisely to initiate this kind of performative outrage, all those suckers were baited into it and were caught hook, line, and sinker. In almost every case of right-wing culture war playacting, the sales of the companies being targeted went up. Nike made a billion dollars because of how angry people got that they featured a football player who kneeled for the anthem. Same can be said for the “liberal tears” style of “tactical” coffee or whatever. They seek to provoke outrage specifically for the PR. Because let’s be honest, virtue signaling is happening at every level on every side of a given issue. It’s why most of the people driving giant pickup trucks or a Prius bought those vehicles. Here’s a hint: companies don’t have values. They make money. That’s all. The sooner gullible people stop looking for companies to reflect their own weird biases back at them, the sooner they’ll stop using rage bait and virtue signaling to sell more of their crap. I certainly don’t want my beverage to have strong political positions about anything. I kind of think the people who do are the problem here.
    - jokethrowaway 2y ago
      Yes! > When it was all said and done, the ad correlated to an astronomical $8 billion in Gillette sales loss. > Bud Light sales remain flat more than year after the brand faced a conservative boycott from consumers angered over its teaming up with influencer Dylan Mulvaney. I'm not familiar about the Nike or the Keurig issue. I can't find a reference to sales results but I guess the demographics of Nike is woke people so they can afford to do that. Budweiser and Gillette screwed up massively, probably because of wrong assumptions of their customer base. Like all large companies of office workers, they seem to drift left internally and right wing / libertarian people just shut up not to get fired. This of course creates a belief that everywhere is "progressive" and marketing people feel empowered to pull these stunts.
  - sixothree 2y ago
    What’s funny is beer drinking straight guys are the epitome of virtue signaling.
    - ihumanable 2y ago
      Yea, and the entire boycott is virtue signaling (or vice signaling). Giant corporation dared to acknowledge the existence of some people I don't like, GO WOKE GO BROKE ARGGGGGG!!!! I'm sure some people were legitimately upset, I don't think they have a particularly valid reason to be upset, but people get upset for silly reasons all the time. And then 95% of the people were just like "I'm supposed to be mad because people in my tribe are mad" which is literally virtue signaling. I'm in the group too, see how mad I am!
  - jhp123 2y ago
    From reading about this boycott I expected the ad to contain a political message of some sort, but it's literally just a regular beer ad with a trans person. Surely, objecting to the mere presence or visibility of certain groups isn't a customer preference that any of us should cater to
    - matrix87 2y ago
      > should cater to you bring in the word "should"... there's plenty of things that corporations shouldn't be doing that are far, far worse than not depicting some minority in an ad Like apple, nike, etc relying on borderline slave labor for manufacturing. Or literally anything nestle is doing
- matrix87 2y ago
  From their VP of marketing... > Bud Light had been kind of a brand of fratty, kind of out-of-touch humor, and it was really important that we had another approach Two things: frats buy a lot of beer, so sneering at frats is essentially sneering at the customer. Also, there's a good chance the average person who buys a lot of beer skews a certain political way. Or at least, if that wasn't the case this fiasco wouldn't have put such a dent in their market share
  - afavour 2y ago
    > there's a good chance the average person who buys a lot of beer skews a certain political way There really isn’t! In fact I can think of few drinks more universal among men than beer. You note in the quote provided the VP said “another”, not “a replacement”. They were trying to appeal to a new market alongside their existing one. They underestimated the culture war outrage that would provoke but that outrage wasn’t actually based on anything real. The product remains the same, the price remains the same. Unlike in the article we’re discussing.
    - matrix87 2y ago
      > but that outrage wasn’t actually based on anything real What? This is marketing, if the customer stops buying, nobody gives a flying fuck if it's "real". You think the VP's boss or the shareholders cared if it was "real"? If your job is to sell beer, and you're selling less beer, that's about as real as it gets in this context
      - afavour 2y ago
        I was saying “real” as a comparison to the article this thread inspired. If you change the price of your product there is a “real” difference: your product now hits your customers wallet differently. It’ll change your position in the market when compared to your competitors. Same when a product starts using cheaper ingredients, you ruin the taste, yadda yadda. The difference here is that the Bud Light product hasn’t changed one iota. You’re right that the sales figures are real but the outrage was an entirely manufactured thing.
- mbg721 2y ago
  Their customers clearly objected; you can call that "culture war hysteria", but that's the die-by-the-sword of mega company marketing.

afavour 2y ago

I was with you until the Bud Light thing… that’s just culture war hysteria. Nothing about the product or its price has changed. Bud Light just did some Instagram promotion with a transgender influencer. I’m struggling to see that as “deliberately disregarding” their customers.

yarg 2y ago
They attempted to virtue signal to a market with a very low interest in beer, while at the same time pushing away anyone sick of constant virtue signalling. And who's sick of the virtue signalling? Beer drinking straight dudes. It's not just a culture war issue, it's an issue of gross incompetence in marketing and a failure to understand the demographics of their customer base.
- CapcomGo 2y ago
  It's a culture war thing. People protesting Bud Light didn't even know what they were protesting. They saw Kid Rock shoot some beers and were all-in.
  - listenallyall 2y ago
    Videos of the transgender influencer went extremely viral. Ex-Bud Light customers knew exactly what repelled them.
- afavour 2y ago
  The term “virtue signal” is the backbone of the argument here and I have to confess I don’t understand. They attempted to sell beer to a market with a historically low interest in beer. I don’t understand why marketing would be virtue signalling. Expanding to new markets is a thing businesses do. And we’re in an era capable of very targeted advertising, the only people who would have organically seen the ad are people who already followed that influencer so I’m still at a loss as to what the original customer base would be losing. Their experience was exactly the same, it’s nothing like the situation outlined in the article. But once it’s become a culture war issue sides must be taken. Maybe they should have anticipated right wing reactionaries capitalising on it. > And who’s sick of virtue signalling? Beer drinking straight dudes. Speak for yourself, man. It is not something that comes up in my life.
  - matrix87 2y ago
    > The term “virtue signal” is the backbone of the argument here and I have to confess I don’t understand. I don't think corporations have any standing to lecture regular people on what's moral. Corporations have literally zero moral standing For context, I'm voting for biden this year (assuming he doesn't kick the bucket first), but if these shitty soulless "brands" want to lecture me on what's right and wrong I'll just buy a competitor. Their whole marketing department can get fired for all I care (assuming they weren't already)
    - afavour 2y ago
      > I don't think corporations have any standing to lecture regular people on what's moral. Right, and my point is that I don't see where Bud Light was trying to do that. If they'd launched a nationwide ad campaign saying "Bud Light drinkers, respect trans lives", I could see the argument. But they didn't. They merely partnered with an influencer that's trans to advertise to their followers. If anything to me that seems nakedly amoral, they're just a business trying to expand their market. Existing buyers of Bud Light would never have seen the ad so they wouldn't have had any moral messages foisted upon them.
      - 2y ago
- nativeit 2y ago
  > it’s an issue of gross incompetence in marketing Is it? You think companies like Budweiser were surprised when people started posting videos using their beers as target practice? You think Gillette or Nike or Kuerig suffered from the viral destruction of bought and paid-for products? Heck no, it was calculated precisely to initiate this kind of performative outrage, all those suckers were baited into it and were caught hook, line, and sinker. In almost every case of right-wing culture war playacting, the sales of the companies being targeted went up. Nike made a billion dollars because of how angry people got that they featured a football player who kneeled for the anthem. Same can be said for the “liberal tears” style of “tactical” coffee or whatever. They seek to provoke outrage specifically for the PR. Because let’s be honest, virtue signaling is happening at every level on every side of a given issue. It’s why most of the people driving giant pickup trucks or a Prius bought those vehicles. Here’s a hint: companies don’t have values. They make money. That’s all. The sooner gullible people stop looking for companies to reflect their own weird biases back at them, the sooner they’ll stop using rage bait and virtue signaling to sell more of their crap. I certainly don’t want my beverage to have strong political positions about anything. I kind of think the people who do are the problem here.
  - jokethrowaway 2y ago
    Yes! > When it was all said and done, the ad correlated to an astronomical $8 billion in Gillette sales loss. > Bud Light sales remain flat more than year after the brand faced a conservative boycott from consumers angered over its teaming up with influencer Dylan Mulvaney. I'm not familiar about the Nike or the Keurig issue. I can't find a reference to sales results but I guess the demographics of Nike is woke people so they can afford to do that. Budweiser and Gillette screwed up massively, probably because of wrong assumptions of their customer base. Like all large companies of office workers, they seem to drift left internally and right wing / libertarian people just shut up not to get fired. This of course creates a belief that everywhere is "progressive" and marketing people feel empowered to pull these stunts.
- sixothree 2y ago
  What’s funny is beer drinking straight guys are the epitome of virtue signaling.
  - ihumanable 2y ago
    Yea, and the entire boycott is virtue signaling (or vice signaling). Giant corporation dared to acknowledge the existence of some people I don't like, GO WOKE GO BROKE ARGGGGGG!!!! I'm sure some people were legitimately upset, I don't think they have a particularly valid reason to be upset, but people get upset for silly reasons all the time. And then 95% of the people were just like "I'm supposed to be mad because people in my tribe are mad" which is literally virtue signaling. I'm in the group too, see how mad I am!
- jhp123 2y ago
  From reading about this boycott I expected the ad to contain a political message of some sort, but it's literally just a regular beer ad with a trans person. Surely, objecting to the mere presence or visibility of certain groups isn't a customer preference that any of us should cater to
  - matrix87 2y ago
    > should cater to you bring in the word "should"... there's plenty of things that corporations shouldn't be doing that are far, far worse than not depicting some minority in an ad Like apple, nike, etc relying on borderline slave labor for manufacturing. Or literally anything nestle is doing
matrix87 2y ago
From their VP of marketing... > Bud Light had been kind of a brand of fratty, kind of out-of-touch humor, and it was really important that we had another approach Two things: frats buy a lot of beer, so sneering at frats is essentially sneering at the customer. Also, there's a good chance the average person who buys a lot of beer skews a certain political way. Or at least, if that wasn't the case this fiasco wouldn't have put such a dent in their market share
- afavour 2y ago
  > there's a good chance the average person who buys a lot of beer skews a certain political way There really isn’t! In fact I can think of few drinks more universal among men than beer. You note in the quote provided the VP said “another”, not “a replacement”. They were trying to appeal to a new market alongside their existing one. They underestimated the culture war outrage that would provoke but that outrage wasn’t actually based on anything real. The product remains the same, the price remains the same. Unlike in the article we’re discussing.
  - matrix87 2y ago
    > but that outrage wasn’t actually based on anything real What? This is marketing, if the customer stops buying, nobody gives a flying fuck if it's "real". You think the VP's boss or the shareholders cared if it was "real"? If your job is to sell beer, and you're selling less beer, that's about as real as it gets in this context
    - afavour 2y ago
      I was saying “real” as a comparison to the article this thread inspired. If you change the price of your product there is a “real” difference: your product now hits your customers wallet differently. It’ll change your position in the market when compared to your competitors. Same when a product starts using cheaper ingredients, you ruin the taste, yadda yadda. The difference here is that the Bud Light product hasn’t changed one iota. You’re right that the sales figures are real but the outrage was an entirely manufactured thing.
mbg721 2y ago
Their customers clearly objected; you can call that "culture war hysteria", but that's the die-by-the-sword of mega company marketing.