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The difference between Europe and the US is fairly simple. Euro NCAP has a pedestrian collision test as part of the safety rating and NCAP does not, only pedest

The difference between Europe and the US is fairly simple. Euro NCAP has a pedestrian collision test as part of the safety rating and NCAP does not, only pedestrian avoidance. If you could not get a five star safety rating because your car mangles somebody when hitting them at 30mph the tune would change pretty quickly. See all the things tested in Euro NCAP in section 2.2. https://www.euroncap.com/media/80156/euro-ncap-aeb-lss-vru-test-protocol-v451.pdf https://www.euroncap.com/media/80156/euro-ncap-aeb-lss-vru-t...

frankus 2y ago
What's weird is IIHS (a non-government nonprofit) is publishing articles like this [1] and yet AFAIK doesn't incorporate pedestrian safety into its new-car ratings. One would think insurance companies would also be interested in the safety of the people whom their insured collide with. [1] https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/designers-must-make-vehicles-safe-for-everyone--not-just-drivers-and-passengers https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/designers-must-make-vehicle...
- mitthrowaway2 2y ago
  Changes are coming, although I'm skeptical of their impact. https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-proposes-new-crashworthiness-pedestrian-protection-testing-program https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-proposes-new-cras...
mitthrowaway2 2y ago
Unfortunately, Euro-NCAP ignores some of the most important factors, such as ground contact.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  Oh does it? Where can I read up on that?
  - mitthrowaway2 2y ago
    I don't know of anyone who's written about it, unfortunately; I discovered it in the course of my own analysis of Euro-NCAP standards as part of a work project. The test protocol is here: https://www.euroncap.com/en/for-engineers/protocols/vulnerable-road-user-vru-protection/ https://www.euroncap.com/en/for-engineers/protocols/vulnerab... I used to be very excited about Euro-NCAP but when I actually researched it, I became fairly critical. It only measures AEB, and leg impact and head impact against the car, with very little consideration put into how the general profile of the car affects the collision kinematics. Whether the car pushes pedestrians onto the ground or throws them up in the air, it doesn't matter -- only the initial contact between the car and pedestrian is measured. (And while representing the pedestrian by a disembodied leg and a disembodied head). It's had a good influence in some ways, most importantly by testing head impact at various points on the hood, which has forced automakers to reduce stiffness and add more space for deflection between the hood and the engine block. I think in other ways, it's helped accelerate a trend towards brick-shaped vehicle fronts, because they perform better on the leg impact tests. I personally believe this will result in fewer leg injuries but more deaths.
jameshart 2y ago
5 star safety rating only matters inasmuch as it impacts insurance costs. And pedestrian risk should already be priced into insurance costs, independent of whether it’s in the safety rating tests. If they change the standards and a truck doesn’t get a five star rating, the manufacturer will just not mention the safety rating in their marketing materials, and astroturf online forums with opinions undermining the value of the safety rating (‘they changed it specifically to mark down trucks’; ‘it doesn’t test the safety conditions that really matter anyway’; etc… heck you already see people raise these talking points about NCAP) so customers can rationalize themselves into ignoring that the truck they want to buy only scored 3.5 stars.

frankus 2y ago

What's weird is IIHS (a non-government nonprofit) is publishing articles like this [1] and yet AFAIK doesn't incorporate pedestrian safety into its new-car ratings. One would think insurance companies would also be interested in the safety of the people whom their insured collide with. [1] https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/designers-must-make-vehicles-safe-for-everyone--not-just-drivers-and-passengers https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/designers-must-make-vehicle...

mitthrowaway2 2y ago
Changes are coming, although I'm skeptical of their impact. https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-proposes-new-crashworthiness-pedestrian-protection-testing-program https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-proposes-new-cras...

mitthrowaway2 2y ago

Unfortunately, Euro-NCAP ignores some of the most important factors, such as ground contact.

bobthepanda 2y ago
Oh does it? Where can I read up on that?
- mitthrowaway2 2y ago
  I don't know of anyone who's written about it, unfortunately; I discovered it in the course of my own analysis of Euro-NCAP standards as part of a work project. The test protocol is here: https://www.euroncap.com/en/for-engineers/protocols/vulnerable-road-user-vru-protection/ https://www.euroncap.com/en/for-engineers/protocols/vulnerab... I used to be very excited about Euro-NCAP but when I actually researched it, I became fairly critical. It only measures AEB, and leg impact and head impact against the car, with very little consideration put into how the general profile of the car affects the collision kinematics. Whether the car pushes pedestrians onto the ground or throws them up in the air, it doesn't matter -- only the initial contact between the car and pedestrian is measured. (And while representing the pedestrian by a disembodied leg and a disembodied head). It's had a good influence in some ways, most importantly by testing head impact at various points on the hood, which has forced automakers to reduce stiffness and add more space for deflection between the hood and the engine block. I think in other ways, it's helped accelerate a trend towards brick-shaped vehicle fronts, because they perform better on the leg impact tests. I personally believe this will result in fewer leg injuries but more deaths.

jameshart 2y ago

5 star safety rating only matters inasmuch as it impacts insurance costs. And pedestrian risk should already be priced into insurance costs, independent of whether it’s in the safety rating tests. If they change the standards and a truck doesn’t get a five star rating, the manufacturer will just not mention the safety rating in their marketing materials, and astroturf online forums with opinions undermining the value of the safety rating (‘they changed it specifically to mark down trucks’; ‘it doesn’t test the safety conditions that really matter anyway’; etc… heck you already see people raise these talking points about NCAP) so customers can rationalize themselves into ignoring that the truck they want to buy only scored 3.5 stars.