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Sitting in dry sediments they'd keep being OK until geological processes catch up to them. They're literally rocks. If something does not degrade biologically/

by IsTom 2y ago

Sitting in dry sediments they'd keep being OK until geological processes catch up to them. They're literally rocks. If something does not degrade biologically/chemically and is shielded from the elements it's going to take a long time to make it unrecognizable. We find biological fossils all the time. And they're old.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
Sure. I’m struggling to think of a rock we produce that would evidence industrial processes. Put another way, if we found this rock in an old stratum, tens or hundreds of millions of years old, would it be proof someone with industry was there?
- gus_massa 2y ago
  Glasware last forever. I expect that a lot of bottoms of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soda_siphon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soda_siphon survive in landfills. Gold jewelry, but I'm not sure it can prove industrialization. The asphalt of the roads may dissapear, but the gravel mixed with it and under it will create a very strange pattern. Panama and Suez channels, unless they are very unluck and get destroyed. Kitchen granite top and tumbstones. Marble may disolve if there is and acid environment. Quarries and coal mines are huge.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > glassware last forever Million years [1]. (It devitrifies.) > asphalt of the roads may dissapear, but the gravel mixed with it and under it will create a very strange pattern Would this be recognisable at an industrial scale? > Panama and Suez channels Suez is right above the East African rift, so maybe 10 My. Panama no clue. > Quarries and coal mines are huge To where they could evidence industrial activity after millions of years? [1] https://education.seattlepi.com/long-glass-bottle-degrade-landfill-5235.html https://education.seattlepi.com/long-glass-bottle-degrade-la...
    - gus_massa 2y ago
      >> glassware last forever > Million years. (It devitrifies.) Very interesting. It's difficult to get hard numbers. It depends a lot on the composition and the temperature, so I'm more optimistic about they lasting for a few millons years at burried at 15°C(60°F), but I agree they don't last forever --- >> asphalt of the roads may dissapear, but the gravel mixed with it and under it will create a very strange pattern > Would this be recognisable at an industrial scale? I guess so. We have a lot of roads with a not random patterns. --- >> Panama and Suez channels > Suez is right above the East African rift, so maybe 10 My. Panama no clue. I agree. Both are in bad positions to last forever. --- >> Quarries and coal mines are huge > To where they could evidence industrial activity after millions of years? I guess they are. Look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjp6RHb7MtE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjp6RHb7MtE the truck are huge, from time to time there appears a normal truck next to them and it looks like a toy truck. I think when abandonded they get filled with water, then with mud and decomposing plants, and then that will solidify and in the future they will have a huge "volvano caldera" but no volcano at the bottom. Also find the internal roads, cuts by explossions and other strange characterisitcs. The truck will have rot a long time ago and dissapeared, but they may find unusual levels of iron contamination in the parking lot.
- IsTom 2y ago
  I'm not sure how concrete fares with time, but we're making a lot of it. If buried asphalt roads might present a decent head-scratcher. And if not weathered rock carvings should be noticable for a long time.
- lazide 2y ago
  Concrete is laid on recognizable shapes that would never be present in nature - and while it would lose strength and degrade in time, the underlying minerals would still be present and clearly recognizable. Same with steel, stainless steel, brass, ceramics (of all types), glass, plastic, etc. Hell, just all the roadside glass bottles over the years will leave one difficult to ignore trail.
  - IsTom 2y ago
    While I agree with most points: steel degrades quickly. Iron-age swords found are in a bad shape already (bronze age swords preserve better!). Stainless is better, but not that better.
    - lazide 2y ago
      And iron oxide girder shapes are going to be pretty hard to blame on something else eh? Iron oxide is super stable. Chromium oxide too. I’m not saying they’ll not oxidize, I’m saying they’ll still form very recognizable, unnatural, and stable shapes when they do. Even a fully oxidized iron sword leaves a sword shaped lump where it is. And that isn’t something that occurs very often in nature.
- card_zero 2y ago
  There's these tiny little chips of silicon ... easy to miss, real microliths.
- Scramblejams 2y ago
  Not a rock, but how about carbon cenospheres? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16837470 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16837470

by IsTom 2y ago

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

Sure. I’m struggling to think of a rock we produce that would evidence industrial processes. Put another way, if we found this rock in an old stratum, tens or hundreds of millions of years old, would it be proof someone with industry was there?

gus_massa 2y ago
Glasware last forever. I expect that a lot of bottoms of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soda_siphon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soda_siphon survive in landfills. Gold jewelry, but I'm not sure it can prove industrialization. The asphalt of the roads may dissapear, but the gravel mixed with it and under it will create a very strange pattern. Panama and Suez channels, unless they are very unluck and get destroyed. Kitchen granite top and tumbstones. Marble may disolve if there is and acid environment. Quarries and coal mines are huge.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > glassware last forever Million years [1]. (It devitrifies.) > asphalt of the roads may dissapear, but the gravel mixed with it and under it will create a very strange pattern Would this be recognisable at an industrial scale? > Panama and Suez channels Suez is right above the East African rift, so maybe 10 My. Panama no clue. > Quarries and coal mines are huge To where they could evidence industrial activity after millions of years? [1] https://education.seattlepi.com/long-glass-bottle-degrade-landfill-5235.html https://education.seattlepi.com/long-glass-bottle-degrade-la...
  - gus_massa 2y ago
    >> glassware last forever > Million years. (It devitrifies.) Very interesting. It's difficult to get hard numbers. It depends a lot on the composition and the temperature, so I'm more optimistic about they lasting for a few millons years at burried at 15°C(60°F), but I agree they don't last forever --- >> asphalt of the roads may dissapear, but the gravel mixed with it and under it will create a very strange pattern > Would this be recognisable at an industrial scale? I guess so. We have a lot of roads with a not random patterns. --- >> Panama and Suez channels > Suez is right above the East African rift, so maybe 10 My. Panama no clue. I agree. Both are in bad positions to last forever. --- >> Quarries and coal mines are huge > To where they could evidence industrial activity after millions of years? I guess they are. Look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjp6RHb7MtE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjp6RHb7MtE the truck are huge, from time to time there appears a normal truck next to them and it looks like a toy truck. I think when abandonded they get filled with water, then with mud and decomposing plants, and then that will solidify and in the future they will have a huge "volvano caldera" but no volcano at the bottom. Also find the internal roads, cuts by explossions and other strange characterisitcs. The truck will have rot a long time ago and dissapeared, but they may find unusual levels of iron contamination in the parking lot.
IsTom 2y ago
I'm not sure how concrete fares with time, but we're making a lot of it. If buried asphalt roads might present a decent head-scratcher. And if not weathered rock carvings should be noticable for a long time.
lazide 2y ago
Concrete is laid on recognizable shapes that would never be present in nature - and while it would lose strength and degrade in time, the underlying minerals would still be present and clearly recognizable. Same with steel, stainless steel, brass, ceramics (of all types), glass, plastic, etc. Hell, just all the roadside glass bottles over the years will leave one difficult to ignore trail.
- IsTom 2y ago
  While I agree with most points: steel degrades quickly. Iron-age swords found are in a bad shape already (bronze age swords preserve better!). Stainless is better, but not that better.
  - lazide 2y ago
    And iron oxide girder shapes are going to be pretty hard to blame on something else eh? Iron oxide is super stable. Chromium oxide too. I’m not saying they’ll not oxidize, I’m saying they’ll still form very recognizable, unnatural, and stable shapes when they do. Even a fully oxidized iron sword leaves a sword shaped lump where it is. And that isn’t something that occurs very often in nature.
card_zero 2y ago
There's these tiny little chips of silicon ... easy to miss, real microliths.
Scramblejams 2y ago
Not a rock, but how about carbon cenospheres? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16837470 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16837470