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>In the 1950s tips ran to about 10% of bills. By the 1980s they rose to 15%. In recent years they have hit 20%. Whereas tipping used to be reserved for table se

>In the 1950s tips ran to about 10% of bills. By the 1980s they rose to 15%. In recent years they have hit 20%. Whereas tipping used to be reserved for table service at restaurants, now buying a coffee or a muffin is likely to involve the employee flipping around a tablet screen to the customer to solicit a tip. That can be hard to refuse when the person behind you in line is peering over your shoulder. And these screens typically give three options—of, say, 18%, 20% or 23%—making it difficult to opt for something smaller. This is perhaps a consequence of student debt nightmare from worthless, over priced college degrees. People waiting tables and serving coffee now are "highly educated" with expectations!

viraptor 2y ago
Not just for that reason. A long time ago my home country had memes about people not being hired as a bus driver because they only had one PhD. The degree inflation is a separate issue and the tips won't happen unless people are paid really poorly. Instead in the us, the wages are too low and the social part of tipping works in employers' favour. Servers don't have high expectations - they want to afford a to live and food. In most places in the us that's not possible without tips.
- kelipso 2y ago
  It is possible, just increase prices by 20% and pay servers. Not that hard.
  - viraptor 2y ago
    Convince the whole country to stop taking tips and pay 20% extra then. Let us know how easy that was... My whole point is that it's not reasonable not to take tips in the us today.
    - kelipso 2y ago
      The 20% part is easy enough, a year of inflation prove that pretty well. Now you just need to make tipping illegal, pretty straightforward really.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - randomdata 2y ago
        Not exactly straightforward when alcohol is sold. Alcohol laws see liability placed on the server, which means that technically transaction is directly between the customer and the server. Which is no doubt why tipping traditionally was only a practice in places where alcohol is sold. I can't imagine we want to change that. Allowing someone to give endless amounts of alcohol to a customer without any repercussions is rife with problems, and removing the ability for a customer to pay a vendor for services rendered would undo everything we know.
        gruez 2y ago
        >Not exactly straightforward when alcohol is sold. Alcohol laws see liability placed on the server, which means that technically transaction is directly between the customer and the server. Which is no doubt why tipping traditionally was only a practice in places where alcohol is sold. This is an absolutely bizarre take. The fact that bartenders have liability to not serve patrons absurd amounts of alcohol, has no bearing on what the transaction is "technically" between. If you really want to get down to brass tacks, I doubt the merchant account on the credit card machine is going to the bartender, nor is the revenue showing up on his tax returns. Moreover, bartending isn't the only profession where you take on liability. Doctors are liable for malpractice as well. Does that mean you should tip your doctors as well?
        randomdata 2y ago
        By and large doctors operate independent businesses, so you are tipping them. Of course, doctors working as employees isn't completely unheard of. If you are worried about consistency, then you absolutely should also be tipping those in that situation, but as tipping on employment arrangements is never expected anywhere, not even where alcohol is sold, there is no onus for you to. It is your life to live. Do what you want.
    - wkrsz 2y ago
      I imagine restaurant chains could make this their competitive advantage: "No hidden costs. Service included. No tips expected. What you seen on the menu is the real price" I'd be inclined to choose such a place as a tourist from Europe, who's accustomed to tipping being optional.
      - kleinsch 2y ago
        That's not how most people think. JCPenny tried removing discounts and clearance sales so they could say "what you see is the real price" and it was a disaster. Most people aren't doing the mental math to decide what's actually more expensive. https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/27/business/jcpenney-history/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/27/business/jcpenney-history/ind...
  - tzs 2y ago
    For people that are currently paying 20% tips that's a big win. It doesn't change what they pay but streamlines the process. But for people who are currently not tipping or paying less than 20% it would be a price increase. If the people not tipping or tipping less than 20% were evenly distributed across all age, income, and other demographic groups probably nobody else would care. Unfortunately non-tipping and low tipping is not evenly distributed in the US. That would need to be taken into account.
eesmith 2y ago
I strongly doubt the local staff have much say about the tip options on the tablet, no matter what level of education they may have.
- Symbiote 2y ago
  In Denmark those staff will often press the "no tip" button themselves. They don't want to beg.
- randomdata 2y ago
  Not my experience running a restaurant. I just went through this last year. The last thing I wanted to add to my plate was changing the tipping options, but I also have to retain staff who were adamant that the tipping options needed to be higher. There is no business without them, so what do you do?
  - eesmith 2y ago
    Raise their salaries?
    - randomdata 2y ago
      No way they would go for that. That limits the potential upside. Tips have unlimited earning potential. A salary, even if higher, is a fixed quantity. I'd be okay with eliminating tipping. Frankly, it would be way easier for me to take my margin if the price was baked into the menu! In a vacuum, it would be silly for me to do anything else. But you don't have a business without the staff. You are pretty much beholden to their whims. There is a restaurant on every street corner and they are all hiring. If you don't keep staff happy, they aren't sticking around.
      - eesmith 2y ago
        I wasn't suggesting to eliminate tipping, I was suggesting to raise salary as an alternative to changing the tipping options. The unlimited earning potential would still be there.
rebeccaskinner 2y ago
> This is perhaps a consequence of student debt nightmare from worthless, over priced college degrees. People waiting tables and serving coffee now are "highly educated" with expectations! I hate this sentiment. Not every degree is going to lead to a high paying career, but knowledge is worth having in it's own right. If people are passionate enough spend four years studying art history or poetry or underwater basket weaving then I'm glad we are sharing and preserving that knowledge in our culture. I don't like tipping culture, and I don't really think the two are related, but if tipping is the only way that we could get a generally well rounded educated population then I suppose I'll prefer tipping.
- gruez 2y ago
  >I hate this sentiment. Not every degree is going to lead to a high paying career, but knowledge is worth having in it's own right. If people are passionate enough spend four years studying art history or poetry or underwater basket weaving then I'm glad we are sharing and preserving that knowledge in our culture. There's probably some non-zero value in learning underwater basket weaving or whatever, but I don't see why it should be publicly funded. I don't see any fundamental difference between someone wasting 6 figures on an useless degree, and someone wasting 6 figures on a useless hobby.
  - rebeccaskinner 2y ago
    Personally I think having a society that has a mix of educational background is desirable. I don’t really expect a national emergency that can only be averted my mobilizing our collective underwater basket weaving expertise, but I do think in a general sense it’s good for society to hedge its bets and invest some amount in a wide variety of expertise. Career prospects are already a good incentive for people to study in demand fields. Having a few underwater basket weavers is still a gain for everyone in society. On top of that, in the US a lot of time in an undergraduate program is spent on general education. Someone who’s degree is in underwater basket weaving still has more education in general than a person without a degree, and that’s also good for society.
- ryandrake 2y ago
freitzkriesler2 2y ago
I only tip for table service and taxis. If I see a tip on anything else, I happily hit no tip. I don't do delivery either since even with tips delivery drivers still bring my food cold. I'd rather get off my bum and guarantee hot food immediately without the risk of the driver eating it.

viraptor 2y ago

Not just for that reason. A long time ago my home country had memes about people not being hired as a bus driver because they only had one PhD. The degree inflation is a separate issue and the tips won't happen unless people are paid really poorly. Instead in the us, the wages are too low and the social part of tipping works in employers' favour. Servers don't have high expectations - they want to afford a to live and food. In most places in the us that's not possible without tips.

kelipso 2y ago
It is possible, just increase prices by 20% and pay servers. Not that hard.
- viraptor 2y ago
  Convince the whole country to stop taking tips and pay 20% extra then. Let us know how easy that was... My whole point is that it's not reasonable not to take tips in the us today.
  - kelipso 2y ago
    The 20% part is easy enough, a year of inflation prove that pretty well. Now you just need to make tipping illegal, pretty straightforward really.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - randomdata 2y ago
      Not exactly straightforward when alcohol is sold. Alcohol laws see liability placed on the server, which means that technically transaction is directly between the customer and the server. Which is no doubt why tipping traditionally was only a practice in places where alcohol is sold. I can't imagine we want to change that. Allowing someone to give endless amounts of alcohol to a customer without any repercussions is rife with problems, and removing the ability for a customer to pay a vendor for services rendered would undo everything we know.
      - gruez 2y ago
        >Not exactly straightforward when alcohol is sold. Alcohol laws see liability placed on the server, which means that technically transaction is directly between the customer and the server. Which is no doubt why tipping traditionally was only a practice in places where alcohol is sold. This is an absolutely bizarre take. The fact that bartenders have liability to not serve patrons absurd amounts of alcohol, has no bearing on what the transaction is "technically" between. If you really want to get down to brass tacks, I doubt the merchant account on the credit card machine is going to the bartender, nor is the revenue showing up on his tax returns. Moreover, bartending isn't the only profession where you take on liability. Doctors are liable for malpractice as well. Does that mean you should tip your doctors as well?
        randomdata 2y ago
        By and large doctors operate independent businesses, so you are tipping them. Of course, doctors working as employees isn't completely unheard of. If you are worried about consistency, then you absolutely should also be tipping those in that situation, but as tipping on employment arrangements is never expected anywhere, not even where alcohol is sold, there is no onus for you to. It is your life to live. Do what you want.
  - wkrsz 2y ago
    I imagine restaurant chains could make this their competitive advantage: "No hidden costs. Service included. No tips expected. What you seen on the menu is the real price" I'd be inclined to choose such a place as a tourist from Europe, who's accustomed to tipping being optional.
    - kleinsch 2y ago
      That's not how most people think. JCPenny tried removing discounts and clearance sales so they could say "what you see is the real price" and it was a disaster. Most people aren't doing the mental math to decide what's actually more expensive. https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/27/business/jcpenney-history/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/27/business/jcpenney-history/ind...
- tzs 2y ago
  For people that are currently paying 20% tips that's a big win. It doesn't change what they pay but streamlines the process. But for people who are currently not tipping or paying less than 20% it would be a price increase. If the people not tipping or tipping less than 20% were evenly distributed across all age, income, and other demographic groups probably nobody else would care. Unfortunately non-tipping and low tipping is not evenly distributed in the US. That would need to be taken into account.

eesmith 2y ago

I strongly doubt the local staff have much say about the tip options on the tablet, no matter what level of education they may have.

Symbiote 2y ago
In Denmark those staff will often press the "no tip" button themselves. They don't want to beg.
randomdata 2y ago
Not my experience running a restaurant. I just went through this last year. The last thing I wanted to add to my plate was changing the tipping options, but I also have to retain staff who were adamant that the tipping options needed to be higher. There is no business without them, so what do you do?
- eesmith 2y ago
  Raise their salaries?
  - randomdata 2y ago
    No way they would go for that. That limits the potential upside. Tips have unlimited earning potential. A salary, even if higher, is a fixed quantity. I'd be okay with eliminating tipping. Frankly, it would be way easier for me to take my margin if the price was baked into the menu! In a vacuum, it would be silly for me to do anything else. But you don't have a business without the staff. You are pretty much beholden to their whims. There is a restaurant on every street corner and they are all hiring. If you don't keep staff happy, they aren't sticking around.
    - eesmith 2y ago
      I wasn't suggesting to eliminate tipping, I was suggesting to raise salary as an alternative to changing the tipping options. The unlimited earning potential would still be there.

rebeccaskinner 2y ago

> This is perhaps a consequence of student debt nightmare from worthless, over priced college degrees. People waiting tables and serving coffee now are "highly educated" with expectations! I hate this sentiment. Not every degree is going to lead to a high paying career, but knowledge is worth having in it's own right. If people are passionate enough spend four years studying art history or poetry or underwater basket weaving then I'm glad we are sharing and preserving that knowledge in our culture. I don't like tipping culture, and I don't really think the two are related, but if tipping is the only way that we could get a generally well rounded educated population then I suppose I'll prefer tipping.

gruez 2y ago
>I hate this sentiment. Not every degree is going to lead to a high paying career, but knowledge is worth having in it's own right. If people are passionate enough spend four years studying art history or poetry or underwater basket weaving then I'm glad we are sharing and preserving that knowledge in our culture. There's probably some non-zero value in learning underwater basket weaving or whatever, but I don't see why it should be publicly funded. I don't see any fundamental difference between someone wasting 6 figures on an useless degree, and someone wasting 6 figures on a useless hobby.
- rebeccaskinner 2y ago
  Personally I think having a society that has a mix of educational background is desirable. I don’t really expect a national emergency that can only be averted my mobilizing our collective underwater basket weaving expertise, but I do think in a general sense it’s good for society to hedge its bets and invest some amount in a wide variety of expertise. Career prospects are already a good incentive for people to study in demand fields. Having a few underwater basket weavers is still a gain for everyone in society. On top of that, in the US a lot of time in an undergraduate program is spent on general education. Someone who’s degree is in underwater basket weaving still has more education in general than a person without a degree, and that’s also good for society.
ryandrake 2y ago

freitzkriesler2 2y ago

I only tip for table service and taxis. If I see a tip on anything else, I happily hit no tip. I don't do delivery either since even with tips delivery drivers still bring my food cold. I'd rather get off my bum and guarantee hot food immediately without the risk of the driver eating it.