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>> A machine that can reason with an extremist is far more useful than one that an extremist can identify as such. And a machine that can plausibly sound like

>> A machine that can reason with an extremist is far more useful than one that an extremist can identify as such. And a machine that can plausibly sound like an extremist would be a great tool for propaganda. More worryingly, such tools could be used to create and encourage other extremists. Build a convincing and charismatic AI, who happens to be a racist, then turn it loose on twitter. In a year or two you will likely control an online army.

Dracophoenix 2y ago
How does a computer decide what's "extreme", "propaganda", "racist"? These are terms taken for granted in common conversation, but when subject to scrutiny, it becomes obvious they lack objective non-circular definitions. Rather, they are terms predicated on after-the-fact rationalizations that a computer has no way of knowing or distinguishing without, ironically, purposefully inserted biases (and often poorly done at that). You can't build a "convincing" or "charismatic" AI because persuasion and charm are qualities that human beings (supposedly) comprehend and respond to, not machines. AI "Charisma" is just a model built on positive reinforcement.
- tbrownaw 2y ago
  > These are terms taken for granted in common conversation, but when subject to scrutiny, it becomes obvious they lack objective non-circular definitions This is false. A simple dictionary check shows that the definitions are in fact not circular.
  - Unbefleckt 2y ago
    I see these terms used in contexts that are beyond the dated dictionary definitions all the time.
  - Dracophoenix 2y ago
    In general, dictionaries are useful in providing a history, and sometimes, an origin of a term's usage. However, they don't provide a comprehensive or absolute meaning. Unlike scientific laws, words aren't discovered, but rather manufactured. Subsequently they are, adopted by a larger public, delimited by experts, and at times recontextualized by an academic/philosophical discipline or something of that nature. Even in the best case, when a term is clearly defined and well-mapped to its referent, popular usage creates a connotation that then supplants the earlier meaning. Dictionaries will sometimes retain older meanings/usages, and in doing so, build a roster of "dated", "rare", "antiquated", or "alternative" meanings/usages throughout a term's mimetic lifecycle.
    - tbrownaw 2y ago
      Well if you're taking that tack then it's an argument about language in general rather than those specific terms.
      - Dracophoenix 2y ago
        It's an issue of correlating semantics with preconceived value-judgements (i.e. the is-ought problem). While this may affect language as a whole, there are (often abstract and controversial) terms/ideas that are more likely to acquire or have already acquired inconsistent presumptions and interpretations than others. The questionable need for weighting certain responses as well as the odd and uncanny results that follow should be proof enough that what is expected of a human being to "just get" by other members of "society" (an event I'm unconvinced happens as often as desired or claimed) is unfalsifiable or meaningless to a generative model.

Dracophoenix 2y ago

How does a computer decide what's "extreme", "propaganda", "racist"? These are terms taken for granted in common conversation, but when subject to scrutiny, it becomes obvious they lack objective non-circular definitions. Rather, they are terms predicated on after-the-fact rationalizations that a computer has no way of knowing or distinguishing without, ironically, purposefully inserted biases (and often poorly done at that). You can't build a "convincing" or "charismatic" AI because persuasion and charm are qualities that human beings (supposedly) comprehend and respond to, not machines. AI "Charisma" is just a model built on positive reinforcement.

tbrownaw 2y ago
> These are terms taken for granted in common conversation, but when subject to scrutiny, it becomes obvious they lack objective non-circular definitions This is false. A simple dictionary check shows that the definitions are in fact not circular.
- Unbefleckt 2y ago
  I see these terms used in contexts that are beyond the dated dictionary definitions all the time.
- Dracophoenix 2y ago
  In general, dictionaries are useful in providing a history, and sometimes, an origin of a term's usage. However, they don't provide a comprehensive or absolute meaning. Unlike scientific laws, words aren't discovered, but rather manufactured. Subsequently they are, adopted by a larger public, delimited by experts, and at times recontextualized by an academic/philosophical discipline or something of that nature. Even in the best case, when a term is clearly defined and well-mapped to its referent, popular usage creates a connotation that then supplants the earlier meaning. Dictionaries will sometimes retain older meanings/usages, and in doing so, build a roster of "dated", "rare", "antiquated", or "alternative" meanings/usages throughout a term's mimetic lifecycle.
  - tbrownaw 2y ago
    Well if you're taking that tack then it's an argument about language in general rather than those specific terms.
    - Dracophoenix 2y ago
      It's an issue of correlating semantics with preconceived value-judgements (i.e. the is-ought problem). While this may affect language as a whole, there are (often abstract and controversial) terms/ideas that are more likely to acquire or have already acquired inconsistent presumptions and interpretations than others. The questionable need for weighting certain responses as well as the odd and uncanny results that follow should be proof enough that what is expected of a human being to "just get" by other members of "society" (an event I'm unconvinced happens as often as desired or claimed) is unfalsifiable or meaningless to a generative model.