4 ms·

> Sunday morning breakfast service, the guys at your local diner will do say 500 plates during the rush. Swap them out with a few highly educated Michelin star

by slater 2y ago

> Sunday morning breakfast service, the guys at your local diner will do say 500 plates during the rush. Swap them out with a few highly educated Michelin star guys and they would struggle to break 100 until they learned how to work in a real kitchen. You don't think "Michelin star guys" had to start as line cooks and could easily do 500 plates...?

willcipriano 2y ago
Typically no. It's a different career path. They would start as the low guy in a big kitchen, probably go to culinary school as well, like this article is talking about.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  My experience cooking at michelin contenders and a couple michelin star restaurants in the 2000s was that pretty much every single cook had started their career as a line cook or dishwasher at a no-prestige restaurant, even a chain. "Low guy in big kitchen" if you're talking about a locally notable restaurant is not a job available to people who don't already know their way around a kitchen. The two normal paths both start from cooking as "just a job" in or right after high school, decide you want to do it seriously. And then either go to culinary school or beg your way into a better kitchen and start grinding your up way. It was about 50/50, I only ever ran into a handful of people who went straight into culinary school with no experience.
  - jalapenos 2y ago
    Is the kitchen life as bad as it looks on TV? Like stressful as hell and some ultra aggressive chef chewing you out constantly (and for low pay), or is that just for TV drama? Also how often are people getting severe injuries (chopping bits off their hand, getting severe burns)?
    - defrost 2y ago
      Depends on the kitchen, I worked 3x lunchtime-midnight shifts per week (most weeks) at an Italian function kitchen for 18 months. It was focused grind; prepping, then plating, dishwashing, then cleaning for 250-300 seats for weddings | engagements | etc. I enjoyed it, steady work all the way through with little to no drama other than some occassional wait staff drama (the 20 something overly privileged offspring of owners and their circle being made to work "a real job" were the usual problem, mixing social lives with prancing for tips with insta-drama). No real injuries during my time there, on one occassion the front glass window was taken out with a shotgun before start of day (some drama with business owner family member sleeping with someone they shouldn't have) - no injuries, no police called, window replaced within hours, no sign of damage by opening time.
    - schwartzworld 2y ago
      The worst are the chefs who watch the TV drama and think that's ok behavior > Also how often are people getting severe injuries (chopping bits off their hand, getting severe burns) Not every day, but it's not super rare. I've worked with cooks that have had mandoline accidents and bad fryer oil burns.
    - giraffe_lady 2y ago
      I don't really watch tv but so can't compare too well but yes it's stressful as hell and you get treated like shit a lot of the time. Some of it is just the normal dehumanizing situation of american wage labor eg no paid time off, no healthcare, etc. But the culture of cooking is particularly bad even within that. I understand this has improved somewhat since I left but from what I hear it is still not good. I only knew of one genuinely life changing injury in a kitchen I was in, a very bad burn to both the cook's feet. But I saw plenty of cuts that needed stitches, and a few graft-worthy burns. Quite a few concussions too, from slips or accidentally pulling down more than expected from a high shelf. IMO the real menace is just chronic health stuff: substance abuse and other mental illness are common and no one has the resources or support to deal with it adequately. You don't get even unpaid time off to recover from illness or injury and it really takes a toll over time. Most of those injuries I described, the person finished their shift and was back at work the next day. If they even went to the hospital in between, it was at the expense of their own rest and family responsibilities. Line cook was one of the most deadly jobs during covid, up there with frontline healthcare workers in the beginning. They only got overtaken by police & fire in the second half because so many cops refused to get vaccinated. Which, lmao.
lightedman 2y ago
"You don't think "Michelin star guys" had to start as line cooks and could easily do 500 plates...?" Very few were forged right in the fire of the kitchen. The vast majority went to a culinary school. I started my taxable life in the kitchen of a combination Chinese restaurant and grocery market.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  When/where did you experience that? When I cooked at this level in nyc in the 2000s only about half of the line cooks had been to culinary school. And of the ones that had, almost all had been serious line cooks before going, I only ever ran into a handful who went straight into school first. Shit I don't think most of the good cooking schools would even take you without experience? Maybe this has changed in the last decade, but probably not completely. In france and probably the rest of europe yeah almost all serious cooks have formal education in it. Mostly because "formal education in it" is a specific track in vocational high school that everyone has access to.
  - teractiveodular 2y ago
    I think GP is saying that Michelin star chefs come from culinary school, not line cooks.
    - chefandy 2y ago
      And that's completely false. You don't leave culinary school as a chef if you're going into the restaurant business, you're a line cook or prep cook, and your knowledge lets you advance much more quickly than everyone else. Sure you can get a "kitchen manager" sort of job in a hotel or cafeteria or something, but any restaurant hiring people into non-entry-level positions out of culinary school aint winning no awards. A huge portion of the famous chefs never went to culinary school. When I graduated, I was a line cook working for a guy who never went to school and he was one of the most talented chefs I've ever encountered.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

by slater 2y ago

willcipriano 2y ago

Typically no. It's a different career path. They would start as the low guy in a big kitchen, probably go to culinary school as well, like this article is talking about.

giraffe_lady 2y ago
My experience cooking at michelin contenders and a couple michelin star restaurants in the 2000s was that pretty much every single cook had started their career as a line cook or dishwasher at a no-prestige restaurant, even a chain. "Low guy in big kitchen" if you're talking about a locally notable restaurant is not a job available to people who don't already know their way around a kitchen. The two normal paths both start from cooking as "just a job" in or right after high school, decide you want to do it seriously. And then either go to culinary school or beg your way into a better kitchen and start grinding your up way. It was about 50/50, I only ever ran into a handful of people who went straight into culinary school with no experience.
- jalapenos 2y ago
  Is the kitchen life as bad as it looks on TV? Like stressful as hell and some ultra aggressive chef chewing you out constantly (and for low pay), or is that just for TV drama? Also how often are people getting severe injuries (chopping bits off their hand, getting severe burns)?
  - defrost 2y ago
    Depends on the kitchen, I worked 3x lunchtime-midnight shifts per week (most weeks) at an Italian function kitchen for 18 months. It was focused grind; prepping, then plating, dishwashing, then cleaning for 250-300 seats for weddings | engagements | etc. I enjoyed it, steady work all the way through with little to no drama other than some occassional wait staff drama (the 20 something overly privileged offspring of owners and their circle being made to work "a real job" were the usual problem, mixing social lives with prancing for tips with insta-drama). No real injuries during my time there, on one occassion the front glass window was taken out with a shotgun before start of day (some drama with business owner family member sleeping with someone they shouldn't have) - no injuries, no police called, window replaced within hours, no sign of damage by opening time.
  - schwartzworld 2y ago
    The worst are the chefs who watch the TV drama and think that's ok behavior > Also how often are people getting severe injuries (chopping bits off their hand, getting severe burns) Not every day, but it's not super rare. I've worked with cooks that have had mandoline accidents and bad fryer oil burns.
  - giraffe_lady 2y ago
    I don't really watch tv but so can't compare too well but yes it's stressful as hell and you get treated like shit a lot of the time. Some of it is just the normal dehumanizing situation of american wage labor eg no paid time off, no healthcare, etc. But the culture of cooking is particularly bad even within that. I understand this has improved somewhat since I left but from what I hear it is still not good. I only knew of one genuinely life changing injury in a kitchen I was in, a very bad burn to both the cook's feet. But I saw plenty of cuts that needed stitches, and a few graft-worthy burns. Quite a few concussions too, from slips or accidentally pulling down more than expected from a high shelf. IMO the real menace is just chronic health stuff: substance abuse and other mental illness are common and no one has the resources or support to deal with it adequately. You don't get even unpaid time off to recover from illness or injury and it really takes a toll over time. Most of those injuries I described, the person finished their shift and was back at work the next day. If they even went to the hospital in between, it was at the expense of their own rest and family responsibilities. Line cook was one of the most deadly jobs during covid, up there with frontline healthcare workers in the beginning. They only got overtaken by police & fire in the second half because so many cops refused to get vaccinated. Which, lmao.

lightedman 2y ago

"You don't think "Michelin star guys" had to start as line cooks and could easily do 500 plates...?" Very few were forged right in the fire of the kitchen. The vast majority went to a culinary school. I started my taxable life in the kitchen of a combination Chinese restaurant and grocery market.

giraffe_lady 2y ago
When/where did you experience that? When I cooked at this level in nyc in the 2000s only about half of the line cooks had been to culinary school. And of the ones that had, almost all had been serious line cooks before going, I only ever ran into a handful who went straight into school first. Shit I don't think most of the good cooking schools would even take you without experience? Maybe this has changed in the last decade, but probably not completely. In france and probably the rest of europe yeah almost all serious cooks have formal education in it. Mostly because "formal education in it" is a specific track in vocational high school that everyone has access to.
- teractiveodular 2y ago
  I think GP is saying that Michelin star chefs come from culinary school, not line cooks.
  - chefandy 2y ago
    And that's completely false. You don't leave culinary school as a chef if you're going into the restaurant business, you're a line cook or prep cook, and your knowledge lets you advance much more quickly than everyone else. Sure you can get a "kitchen manager" sort of job in a hotel or cafeteria or something, but any restaurant hiring people into non-entry-level positions out of culinary school aint winning no awards. A huge portion of the famous chefs never went to culinary school. When I graduated, I was a line cook working for a guy who never went to school and he was one of the most talented chefs I've ever encountered.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]