4 ms·

This is native vs. java all over again. Apps that use UIKit look like iPhone apps. Phonegap apps look and feel like phonegap, but 'run everywhere'. I think Ph

by fleitz 14y ago

This is native vs. java all over again. Apps that use UIKit look like iPhone apps. Phonegap apps look and feel like phonegap, but 'run everywhere'. I think Phonegap is a suitable replacement for Android & Blackberry where cheap > good. On iOS I'm not sure how receptive the market would be... I think we all know how horrible Java apps feel on OS X, because it uses a slightly different UI paradigm (one menu bar). I do think that you can do quality work on Phonegap, however, it's never going to 'feel' native iOS for a few years until the CPU performance improves on iPhone. That said there are certainly places when writing 'native' code that you throw in a UIWebView because getting iOS to do what you want is a major PITA.

sintaxi 14y ago
some of us prefer to see it as native vs web all over again ;)
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
cageface 14y ago
Except the "native" look and feel is falling out of style fast anyway. The iOS app store is a fashion show and nothing screams amateur now like stock widgets.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  And thank god for that. Android started out ugly, but I don't hear many people asserting that iOS apps are de facto better than Holo-themed apps for Android anymore. Frankly, I feel like it's 2003 when I pick up an iPhone. Plastic and faux-wood. Comforting.
- gurkendoktor 14y ago
  Can you please provide examples? After uninstalling Facebook, every single third-party app on my phone is built of stock widgets. Some skin them, but that retains both behavior and dimensions. I would even say that the "snob masterclass" of iOS apps is all about using stock widgets in style, like Instapaper and Carcassonne do it. Or only in select places, like Paper, but still seamlessly. The only example of well-received custom widgets on my iPad is eBay.
  - gurkendoktor 14y ago
    Oh, I guess Flipboard is also mostly customized. There's probably a stronger incentive to come up with your own stuff on a tablet where UIKit is not as helpful for the overall navigation. For example, the eBay phone app still looks like Apple could've built it.
  - cageface 14y ago
    Just look through the top apps and marvel at how few use the stock UI, even excluding games. Some examples from the top 100: http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/itranslate-voice/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/itranslate-voice/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/camera/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/camera/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/instaframe-pro-photo-frame/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/instaframe-pro-photo-frame/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/djay-for-iphone-ipod-touch-scratch-mix-dj/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/djay-for-iphone-ipod-touch-s... http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/motionx-gps-drive/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/motionx-gps-drive/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/nick-jr-draw-play/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/nick-jr-draw-play/
    - gurkendoktor 14y ago
      I'm looking through the top free iPhone apps in Germany and I can't see a clear trend. Also, I'm not sure how to prove or disprove my point - because being a top app is orthogonal to looking like an amateur effort. WhatsApp has long been #1 here, and while I welcome its stock navigation UI for usability reasons, I think their tacked-on timestamps are as "amateur" as their name.
      - cageface 14y ago
        In the top paid apps in the U.S. the trend is overwhelming. Think what you like about the aesthetics of those apps but they're the ones making money.
        gurkendoktor 14y ago
        Well you said amateur, I thought that was about aesthetics. :) I took the time to analyze Top Grossing US without games. I've gotten a lot of inquiries about HTML5 based apps recently, so this was interesting. #3 MLB, stock; #5 Pandora, stock; #12 MotionX GPS, custom; #17 and #26 comics, slightly customized navigation bar & stock tab bar; #27 Zoosk, faux stock UI; #30 eHarmony, stock; #38 TeleNav, stock; #46 WhatsApp, stock; #52 iTranslate, custom; #68 Nike+ GPS, stock; #72 Camera+, rather custom; #74 MyCalendar, stock; #81 Pages, stock; #83 DC Comics, slightly customized navigation & stock tab bar; #85 Grindr, sotck; #86 Instaframe, custom; #88 Badoo, stockish; #90 Free Music Download, stock; #93, Palm Reader, custom; #96 TurboScan, stock; #97 iMovie, stock where applicable. Some of the UIs are badly imitating UIKit, like Zoosk. They still often replicate the navigation concepts, UIKit shadows (skeuomorphism), widget sizes … - I don't think the stock look & feel is dead yet.
- shadesandcolour 14y ago
  But the argument isn't just about native look and feel vs custom. This is native code vs some ported over stuff that doesn't run quite as well.
- r00fus 14y ago
  It's not about the widgets - it's about how smooth the app works, and what it does. The fancy widget or two like accents (necessary like decor) can take a basic stock widget pile and allow the user to focus on what they're using the app for...
statictype 14y ago
>On iOS I'm not sure how receptive the market would be I'm not convinced that normal people care that much about design. If the app solves a pain point for them, they could care less about how native it feels.
hboon 14y ago
> I think we all know how horrible Java apps feel on OS X, because it uses a slightly different UI paradigm (one menu bar). When this is brought up, I point people to Cyberduck. http://cyberduck.ch/ http://cyberduck.ch/
- josephcooney 14y ago
  Your point being that Cyberduck is not 'native', but people still like it because it gets the job done? Sorry, I'm not familiar with cyberduck but that's what I gleaned from looking at that site.
  - hboon 14y ago
    Cyberduck is a Java app. It looks decent and follows the OS X paradigm of a single menu bar at the top of the screen. My point is it's possible to do a functional and native-looking app with non-native tools. But of course, not all tools are equal. I was just answering to Java on OS X.
- fleitz 14y ago
  Wow. I use cyberduck all the time, this has to be the first app that's java that I didn't know was written in java either through generally sluggishness or horrid UI.

by fleitz 14y ago

sintaxi 14y ago

some of us prefer to see it as native vs web all over again ;)

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

cageface 14y ago

Except the "native" look and feel is falling out of style fast anyway. The iOS app store is a fashion show and nothing screams amateur now like stock widgets.

drivebyacct2 14y ago
And thank god for that. Android started out ugly, but I don't hear many people asserting that iOS apps are de facto better than Holo-themed apps for Android anymore. Frankly, I feel like it's 2003 when I pick up an iPhone. Plastic and faux-wood. Comforting.
gurkendoktor 14y ago
Can you please provide examples? After uninstalling Facebook, every single third-party app on my phone is built of stock widgets. Some skin them, but that retains both behavior and dimensions. I would even say that the "snob masterclass" of iOS apps is all about using stock widgets in style, like Instapaper and Carcassonne do it. Or only in select places, like Paper, but still seamlessly. The only example of well-received custom widgets on my iPad is eBay.
- gurkendoktor 14y ago
  Oh, I guess Flipboard is also mostly customized. There's probably a stronger incentive to come up with your own stuff on a tablet where UIKit is not as helpful for the overall navigation. For example, the eBay phone app still looks like Apple could've built it.
- cageface 14y ago
  Just look through the top apps and marvel at how few use the stock UI, even excluding games. Some examples from the top 100: http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/itranslate-voice/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/itranslate-voice/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/camera/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/camera/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/instaframe-pro-photo-frame/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/instaframe-pro-photo-frame/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/djay-for-iphone-ipod-touch-scratch-mix-dj/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/djay-for-iphone-ipod-touch-s... http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/motionx-gps-drive/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/motionx-gps-drive/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/nick-jr-draw-play/ http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/nick-jr-draw-play/
  - gurkendoktor 14y ago
    I'm looking through the top free iPhone apps in Germany and I can't see a clear trend. Also, I'm not sure how to prove or disprove my point - because being a top app is orthogonal to looking like an amateur effort. WhatsApp has long been #1 here, and while I welcome its stock navigation UI for usability reasons, I think their tacked-on timestamps are as "amateur" as their name.
    - cageface 14y ago
      In the top paid apps in the U.S. the trend is overwhelming. Think what you like about the aesthetics of those apps but they're the ones making money.
      - gurkendoktor 14y ago
        Well you said amateur, I thought that was about aesthetics. :) I took the time to analyze Top Grossing US without games. I've gotten a lot of inquiries about HTML5 based apps recently, so this was interesting. #3 MLB, stock; #5 Pandora, stock; #12 MotionX GPS, custom; #17 and #26 comics, slightly customized navigation bar & stock tab bar; #27 Zoosk, faux stock UI; #30 eHarmony, stock; #38 TeleNav, stock; #46 WhatsApp, stock; #52 iTranslate, custom; #68 Nike+ GPS, stock; #72 Camera+, rather custom; #74 MyCalendar, stock; #81 Pages, stock; #83 DC Comics, slightly customized navigation & stock tab bar; #85 Grindr, sotck; #86 Instaframe, custom; #88 Badoo, stockish; #90 Free Music Download, stock; #93, Palm Reader, custom; #96 TurboScan, stock; #97 iMovie, stock where applicable. Some of the UIs are badly imitating UIKit, like Zoosk. They still often replicate the navigation concepts, UIKit shadows (skeuomorphism), widget sizes … - I don't think the stock look & feel is dead yet.
shadesandcolour 14y ago
But the argument isn't just about native look and feel vs custom. This is native code vs some ported over stuff that doesn't run quite as well.
r00fus 14y ago
It's not about the widgets - it's about how smooth the app works, and what it does. The fancy widget or two like accents (necessary like decor) can take a basic stock widget pile and allow the user to focus on what they're using the app for...

statictype 14y ago

>On iOS I'm not sure how receptive the market would be I'm not convinced that normal people care that much about design. If the app solves a pain point for them, they could care less about how native it feels.

hboon 14y ago

> I think we all know how horrible Java apps feel on OS X, because it uses a slightly different UI paradigm (one menu bar). When this is brought up, I point people to Cyberduck. http://cyberduck.ch/ http://cyberduck.ch/

josephcooney 14y ago
Your point being that Cyberduck is not 'native', but people still like it because it gets the job done? Sorry, I'm not familiar with cyberduck but that's what I gleaned from looking at that site.
- hboon 14y ago
  Cyberduck is a Java app. It looks decent and follows the OS X paradigm of a single menu bar at the top of the screen. My point is it's possible to do a functional and native-looking app with non-native tools. But of course, not all tools are equal. I was just answering to Java on OS X.
fleitz 14y ago
Wow. I use cyberduck all the time, this has to be the first app that's java that I didn't know was written in java either through generally sluggishness or horrid UI.