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> The affected services are said to include Phone Mirroring, SharePlay Screen Sharing, and Apple Intelligence Let me me start by saying that Apple largely made

> The affected services are said to include Phone Mirroring, SharePlay Screen Sharing, and Apple Intelligence Let me me start by saying that Apple largely made its own bed here and has little room to complain about the rules not being clear (re: DMA) when they pull the same shit with their App Store: Dev: Can I release an App that does X? Apple: Build it, submit it, and then we will decide But the EU has also made their bed and this is a direct result of the DMA and not 100% punitive IMHO. I’m sure it’s slightly punitive but I also can see where Apple is coming from. They must be wary about releasing new features deeply baked into the OS that the EU might use the DMA to try to force them to open them up. I’m guessing they want to play a “wait and see” game for how far they get pushed on the existing features that are up in the air (DMA-compliance-wise) because they throw more feature out there.

marginalia_nu 2y ago
It's also worth noting that anytime anyone is offering AI inference "for free", they're doing so at a loss, because AI inference is not free. If they were forced to open it up for arbitrary programmatic usage, that would indeed be a huge problem. Though in an ideal world the DMA would work out so that you could just choose your AI provider. Though I guess (inevitably) having big tiddy unabomber chan as the face of your product may not be the look they're striving for.
addicted 2y ago
New legislation for rapidly moving new technology is not 100% clear at the outset. Shocking! The idea that if legislation is not perfectly crafted it’s bad is ridiculous. The only reason anyone even entertains this patently stupid concept is because the dysfunctional American system means you have to spend massive political capital to get legislation passed and once you did there’s almost no way to tinker the legislation to correct mistakes and handle unforeseen impacts. Fortunately most of the rest of the world, especially the EU, don’t act that way. Yeah the initial legislation will have flaws. And they will fix them. All that being said, considering Apple has consistently acted in bad faith with EU legislation I would wait until other non bad faith actors (so not Meta) also face similar issues.
- joshstrange 2y ago
  > The idea that if legislation is not perfectly crafted it’s bad is ridiculous. I literally never said that. I said it was unclear and a “wait and see” strategy is completely valid given the uncertainty. Not only do I not believe that the EU is somehow better at changing and adapting laws but I wasn’t making any of the arguments you seem to be replying to. Also I’d love to hear who you think are “non bad faith actors” w.r.t. the DMA.
- dialup_sounds 2y ago
  I don't think he said the legislation was bad. It's accomplishing exactly what it set out to do.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
stavros 2y ago
> They must be wary about releasing new features deeply baked into the OS that the EU might use the DMA to try to force them to open them up. Why is that a bad thing? Why can't I, as a developer who has a good idea about using these APIs in a novel way, just do that? Why do users need to patiently wait for Apple to maybe perhaps give a damn about my idea before they can have that need served?
- simonh 2y ago
  If you want to build AI features into your app, using technology you develop, that's up to you and you can do that on the iPhone today. OpenAI has an app in the App Store right now, and it's available in the EU.
  - stavros 2y ago
    But I can't use the features available in the OS, for some reason. What's next, not being able to use the windowing system, or the networking stack? After all, I can write my own in userland, if I want, the Wireguard developers did!
    - mcphage 2y ago
      > But I can't use the features available in the OS, for some reason Well, the reason is that they’re still figuring out what those features are and how they should work, and how to keep them reliable and secure. You’ll get your turn, eventually.
      - stavros 2y ago
        I won't "get my turn", I'll get to use them and nobody else will, because only EU developers will be able to use these forced-open APIs.
        mcphage 2y ago
        Well, no, EU developers won’t be able to use them at all, since it’s not launching in the EU.

marginalia_nu 2y ago

It's also worth noting that anytime anyone is offering AI inference "for free", they're doing so at a loss, because AI inference is not free. If they were forced to open it up for arbitrary programmatic usage, that would indeed be a huge problem. Though in an ideal world the DMA would work out so that you could just choose your AI provider. Though I guess (inevitably) having big tiddy unabomber chan as the face of your product may not be the look they're striving for.

addicted 2y ago

New legislation for rapidly moving new technology is not 100% clear at the outset. Shocking! The idea that if legislation is not perfectly crafted it’s bad is ridiculous. The only reason anyone even entertains this patently stupid concept is because the dysfunctional American system means you have to spend massive political capital to get legislation passed and once you did there’s almost no way to tinker the legislation to correct mistakes and handle unforeseen impacts. Fortunately most of the rest of the world, especially the EU, don’t act that way. Yeah the initial legislation will have flaws. And they will fix them. All that being said, considering Apple has consistently acted in bad faith with EU legislation I would wait until other non bad faith actors (so not Meta) also face similar issues.

joshstrange 2y ago
> The idea that if legislation is not perfectly crafted it’s bad is ridiculous. I literally never said that. I said it was unclear and a “wait and see” strategy is completely valid given the uncertainty. Not only do I not believe that the EU is somehow better at changing and adapting laws but I wasn’t making any of the arguments you seem to be replying to. Also I’d love to hear who you think are “non bad faith actors” w.r.t. the DMA.
dialup_sounds 2y ago
I don't think he said the legislation was bad. It's accomplishing exactly what it set out to do.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

stavros 2y ago

> They must be wary about releasing new features deeply baked into the OS that the EU might use the DMA to try to force them to open them up. Why is that a bad thing? Why can't I, as a developer who has a good idea about using these APIs in a novel way, just do that? Why do users need to patiently wait for Apple to maybe perhaps give a damn about my idea before they can have that need served?

simonh 2y ago
If you want to build AI features into your app, using technology you develop, that's up to you and you can do that on the iPhone today. OpenAI has an app in the App Store right now, and it's available in the EU.
- stavros 2y ago
  But I can't use the features available in the OS, for some reason. What's next, not being able to use the windowing system, or the networking stack? After all, I can write my own in userland, if I want, the Wireguard developers did!
  - mcphage 2y ago
    > But I can't use the features available in the OS, for some reason Well, the reason is that they’re still figuring out what those features are and how they should work, and how to keep them reliable and secure. You’ll get your turn, eventually.
    - stavros 2y ago
      I won't "get my turn", I'll get to use them and nobody else will, because only EU developers will be able to use these forced-open APIs.
      - mcphage 2y ago
        Well, no, EU developers won’t be able to use them at all, since it’s not launching in the EU.