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I think there are two reasons for that. The first is just many people don’t like to take accountability for themselves, so they look for other things to blame.

I think there are two reasons for that. The first is just many people don’t like to take accountability for themselves, so they look for other things to blame. There’s now enough obese people in the population for this delusions to get a lot of mainstream acceptance. The other is that doctors know they can’t actually get their patients to do the necessary lifestyle changes, so their interventions tend to revolve around the assumption that the patients will happily lifestyle themselves to death.

TulliusCicero 2y ago
Lifestyle is definitely a problem to an extent, but people didn't just all decide to be lazy at once. The environment and culture changed.
- AmericanChopper 2y ago
  Culture is just the sum of the things people decide to do, so I’d question whether there’s any real distinction between the things you’re saying here. People who lead obese lifestyles can simply decide to lead a more healthy lifestyle. Why many people don’t make this decision, and what caused these lifestyle choices to be so widely adopted in the first place are interesting questions. But lifestyle choices are the totality of the problem.
  - 7bit 2y ago
    > People who lead obese lifestyles can simply decide to lead a more healthy lifestyle. This is a greatly simplified POV and also incorrect. Lifestyle is influenced by a lot of things that are not merely choices. Stress, depressions, addictions (sugar is highly addictive), trauma, your social environment. Saying that someone can simply choose a healthy lifestyle is like saying someone can simply choose not to be depressed or addicted.
    - AmericanChopper 2y ago
      These things can influence the choices people choose to make, but they cannot make those choices for them. You’re simple stating the shared delusion of obese people who can’t confront accountability. None of the factors you’ve mentioned require anybody to have a donut and a milkshake for breakfast every morning. They might make somebody more likely to make that terrible decision, but it’s still a decision only they are accountable for.
      - 7bit 2y ago
        > You’re simple stating the shared delusion of obese people who can’t confront accountability. None of the factors you’ve mentioned require anybody to have a donut and a milkshake for breakfast every morning. I'm not saying that. I'm merely saying that things aren't so easy as you make them out to be. Read my post again.
        AmericanChopper 2y ago
        Your claim is very explicitly that people are unable to make healthy lifestyle choices. This claim is complete nonsense. Posting a list of vague reasons why people may choose to make unhealthy choices doesn’t support your central claim in any way.
  - TulliusCicero 2y ago
    No, they're not. If a problem is systemic in its existence, then it has a systemic cause. Looking at it as an individual problem is fine for yourself, but if you want to fix it for a society, you have to look at the systemic cause instead.
    - AmericanChopper 2y ago
      The main problem here is that millions of people somehow convinced themselves that they’re not responsible for their own lifestyle choices. Which is certainly a systemic problem worth investigating. If people want to stop being obese though, there is no substitute for lifestyle changes
      - TulliusCicero 2y ago
        People weren't extra responsible before, it was that their diet and exercise patterns were healthier even without them particularly trying. Getting stuck on individual responsibility as a route to society-wide change is a smooth road to failure.
        AmericanChopper 2y ago
        Your ruminations about how they problem can or cannot be solved are not relevant to what is causing the problem. Individual lifestyle choices are what causes obesity, this is a plainly obvious fact that a lot of people are in a complete state of delusion about. What caused this massive shift in culture is a seperate question, that you will find plenty of other people eager to debate with you. How to solve the problem this has created is again another seperate question. But I would suggest that problems caused by individual choices have very few (and very unsatisfying) solutions, other than personal responsibility. Which all tend to require denying people their liberties (like the way you might put a person in jail if they refuse to stop choosing to commit crimes).
        TulliusCicero 2y ago
        > Your ruminations about how they problem can or cannot be solved are not relevant to what is causing the problem. It is, you just don't want to admit it. People didn't all individually decide to change their lifestyle, their lifestyle changed due to their environmental conditions changing. People aren't fully rational actors, but they are responsive actors.

TulliusCicero 2y ago

Lifestyle is definitely a problem to an extent, but people didn't just all decide to be lazy at once. The environment and culture changed.

AmericanChopper 2y ago
Culture is just the sum of the things people decide to do, so I’d question whether there’s any real distinction between the things you’re saying here. People who lead obese lifestyles can simply decide to lead a more healthy lifestyle. Why many people don’t make this decision, and what caused these lifestyle choices to be so widely adopted in the first place are interesting questions. But lifestyle choices are the totality of the problem.
- 7bit 2y ago
  > People who lead obese lifestyles can simply decide to lead a more healthy lifestyle. This is a greatly simplified POV and also incorrect. Lifestyle is influenced by a lot of things that are not merely choices. Stress, depressions, addictions (sugar is highly addictive), trauma, your social environment. Saying that someone can simply choose a healthy lifestyle is like saying someone can simply choose not to be depressed or addicted.
  - AmericanChopper 2y ago
    These things can influence the choices people choose to make, but they cannot make those choices for them. You’re simple stating the shared delusion of obese people who can’t confront accountability. None of the factors you’ve mentioned require anybody to have a donut and a milkshake for breakfast every morning. They might make somebody more likely to make that terrible decision, but it’s still a decision only they are accountable for.
    - 7bit 2y ago
      > You’re simple stating the shared delusion of obese people who can’t confront accountability. None of the factors you’ve mentioned require anybody to have a donut and a milkshake for breakfast every morning. I'm not saying that. I'm merely saying that things aren't so easy as you make them out to be. Read my post again.
      - AmericanChopper 2y ago
        Your claim is very explicitly that people are unable to make healthy lifestyle choices. This claim is complete nonsense. Posting a list of vague reasons why people may choose to make unhealthy choices doesn’t support your central claim in any way.
- TulliusCicero 2y ago
  No, they're not. If a problem is systemic in its existence, then it has a systemic cause. Looking at it as an individual problem is fine for yourself, but if you want to fix it for a society, you have to look at the systemic cause instead.
  - AmericanChopper 2y ago
    The main problem here is that millions of people somehow convinced themselves that they’re not responsible for their own lifestyle choices. Which is certainly a systemic problem worth investigating. If people want to stop being obese though, there is no substitute for lifestyle changes
    - TulliusCicero 2y ago
      People weren't extra responsible before, it was that their diet and exercise patterns were healthier even without them particularly trying. Getting stuck on individual responsibility as a route to society-wide change is a smooth road to failure.
      - AmericanChopper 2y ago
        Your ruminations about how they problem can or cannot be solved are not relevant to what is causing the problem. Individual lifestyle choices are what causes obesity, this is a plainly obvious fact that a lot of people are in a complete state of delusion about. What caused this massive shift in culture is a seperate question, that you will find plenty of other people eager to debate with you. How to solve the problem this has created is again another seperate question. But I would suggest that problems caused by individual choices have very few (and very unsatisfying) solutions, other than personal responsibility. Which all tend to require denying people their liberties (like the way you might put a person in jail if they refuse to stop choosing to commit crimes).
        TulliusCicero 2y ago
        > Your ruminations about how they problem can or cannot be solved are not relevant to what is causing the problem. It is, you just don't want to admit it. People didn't all individually decide to change their lifestyle, their lifestyle changed due to their environmental conditions changing. People aren't fully rational actors, but they are responsive actors.