6 ms·

Let’s go back and remember that Large Tobacco once had Doctors saying smoking was healthy (even funding research papers), and Large Food telling us the importan

Let’s go back and remember that Large Tobacco once had Doctors saying smoking was healthy (even funding research papers), and Large Food telling us the importance of the American breakfast - bacon and eggs, OJ. Both large marketing campaigns with no scientific evidence. I see a lot of these warnings as a jaded consumer, translating into: “don’t buy this, is expensive to produce and we don’t have margins, but buy this substitute, which is cheap and will kill you, but as is trendy is expensive and leave us a much bigger margin” Better to ignore all these signs and get your evidence elsewhere.

safety1st 2y ago
OK, but back to the actual article you're responding to, it isn't a very good one. The author is actually saying "don't worry about which oil you fry stuff in" at one point in it, which is dumb. Like can you technically deep fry stuff in extra virgin olive oil? Yes, but it'll be expensive and EVO has a low smoke point so yes you will need to be careful or you risk burning it, creating carcinogens, it will be more dangerous to use than a proper frying oil etc. Dumb dumb dumb. As far as I know there have always been two serious considerations around cooking oils, one is the smoke point for the reasons above, and the other is quantity of saturated/trans fats with less generally being healthier. This article is on to a good general idea that you don't need fancy and exotic oils unless you want to do something fancy and exotic. But the execution is poor. I keep two oils in my kitchen, a light/EVO oil for salads/breads/quick sautees and one with a high smoke point for frying. Haven't seen any evidence in 20 years that this needs to change. BTW if anyone really wants something to worry about, it's probably going to a restaurant - pro chefs know what sells and are using twice the amount of butter you would if you cooked at home. Love me some butter but the amount being used at restaurants is wild
- hgomersall 2y ago
  EVO has a low smoke point, but AFAICT this doesn't result in serious problems when burning. The suggestion I read is that the high level of antioxidants prohibit the formation of too many nasties, but I'm not sure the study author knew.
  - jb1991 2y ago
    EVO's smoke point is not great for deep frying or high-heat frying, but it's great for quick medium-heat stir-frys and anything in the oven at 350f/180c or below.
  - staunton 2y ago
    > the high level of antioxidants prohibit the formation of too many nasties Source? All sources I found just now say: "burning olive oil very bad".
    - hgomersall 2y ago
      Here's an article written by someone from what looks suspiciously like an olive oil lobby group. That said, it makes explicit reference to the standards complied with to achieve the measurements, so it's plausibly valid: https://actascientific.com/ASNH/pdf/ASNH-02-0083.pdf https://actascientific.com/ASNH/pdf/ASNH-02-0083.pdf Here's another paper from authors with less partisan credentials: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924224422000693 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092422442...
  - safety1st 2y ago
    By nasties I guess you mean carcinogens. Those aren't the only problem with using EVO for high heat frying: 1) You can fry under the smoke point but it's close, so you need to monitor temperature more carefully 2) If you do accidentally hit the smoke point you're going to burn the oil, make whatever you're frying taste worse, stink up the kitchen and gunk up your range hood, if things really go south, you can start a grease fire. 3) EVO is expensive and it doesn't fry any better than any other oil so kind of a waste to use it 4) One of EVO's main selling points is its flavor, which gets neutralized by heat And then yeah if you hit the smoke point, carcinogens maybe/probably/idk. You just never want to get near the smoke point of oil when you cook. EVO is best for lighter and lower heat applications. I'm not a professional, just a guy who likes to cook, but I doubt any professional kitchens are frying or using EVO for any other high heat applications.
  - m463 2y ago
    I thought you should use regular olive oil for cooking (harder to burn) And Extra Virgin olive oil would be good directly, like in a salad.
jb1991 2y ago
"Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" is one of the most ingenious lies ever crafted for commercial gain.
- nikkwong 2y ago
  It's a metabolic fact that breakfast is the most important meal of the day. What consumers are marketed to consume for breakfast is another story.
  - xcv123 2y ago
    > It's a metabolic fact that breakfast is the most important meal of the day Based on what scientific evidence? Some do better without breakfast.
    - nikkwong 2y ago
      See my comment above
      - xcv123 2y ago
        Yes those papers show that it is good to skip breakfast. Replied above.
  - pokot0 2y ago
    How so? On HN you state facts with references usually.
    - nikkwong 2y ago
      See my comment above
  - jb1991 2y ago
    It is not at all a fact, though it was widely disbursed as one for many decades in the 20th century. In fact, recent studies have proven quite the opposite, that it has almost no effect on health or mortality if someone eats or skips breakfast. There are a few exceptions, like people who are at risk of heart failure should not skip meals, but for the vast majority of the public, skipping breakfast actually has proven to have some benefits.

safety1st 2y ago

OK, but back to the actual article you're responding to, it isn't a very good one. The author is actually saying "don't worry about which oil you fry stuff in" at one point in it, which is dumb. Like can you technically deep fry stuff in extra virgin olive oil? Yes, but it'll be expensive and EVO has a low smoke point so yes you will need to be careful or you risk burning it, creating carcinogens, it will be more dangerous to use than a proper frying oil etc. Dumb dumb dumb. As far as I know there have always been two serious considerations around cooking oils, one is the smoke point for the reasons above, and the other is quantity of saturated/trans fats with less generally being healthier. This article is on to a good general idea that you don't need fancy and exotic oils unless you want to do something fancy and exotic. But the execution is poor. I keep two oils in my kitchen, a light/EVO oil for salads/breads/quick sautees and one with a high smoke point for frying. Haven't seen any evidence in 20 years that this needs to change. BTW if anyone really wants something to worry about, it's probably going to a restaurant - pro chefs know what sells and are using twice the amount of butter you would if you cooked at home. Love me some butter but the amount being used at restaurants is wild

hgomersall 2y ago
EVO has a low smoke point, but AFAICT this doesn't result in serious problems when burning. The suggestion I read is that the high level of antioxidants prohibit the formation of too many nasties, but I'm not sure the study author knew.
- jb1991 2y ago
  EVO's smoke point is not great for deep frying or high-heat frying, but it's great for quick medium-heat stir-frys and anything in the oven at 350f/180c or below.
- staunton 2y ago
  > the high level of antioxidants prohibit the formation of too many nasties Source? All sources I found just now say: "burning olive oil very bad".
  - hgomersall 2y ago
    Here's an article written by someone from what looks suspiciously like an olive oil lobby group. That said, it makes explicit reference to the standards complied with to achieve the measurements, so it's plausibly valid: https://actascientific.com/ASNH/pdf/ASNH-02-0083.pdf https://actascientific.com/ASNH/pdf/ASNH-02-0083.pdf Here's another paper from authors with less partisan credentials: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924224422000693 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092422442...
- safety1st 2y ago
  By nasties I guess you mean carcinogens. Those aren't the only problem with using EVO for high heat frying: 1) You can fry under the smoke point but it's close, so you need to monitor temperature more carefully 2) If you do accidentally hit the smoke point you're going to burn the oil, make whatever you're frying taste worse, stink up the kitchen and gunk up your range hood, if things really go south, you can start a grease fire. 3) EVO is expensive and it doesn't fry any better than any other oil so kind of a waste to use it 4) One of EVO's main selling points is its flavor, which gets neutralized by heat And then yeah if you hit the smoke point, carcinogens maybe/probably/idk. You just never want to get near the smoke point of oil when you cook. EVO is best for lighter and lower heat applications. I'm not a professional, just a guy who likes to cook, but I doubt any professional kitchens are frying or using EVO for any other high heat applications.
- m463 2y ago
  I thought you should use regular olive oil for cooking (harder to burn) And Extra Virgin olive oil would be good directly, like in a salad.

jb1991 2y ago

"Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" is one of the most ingenious lies ever crafted for commercial gain.

nikkwong 2y ago
It's a metabolic fact that breakfast is the most important meal of the day. What consumers are marketed to consume for breakfast is another story.
- xcv123 2y ago
  > It's a metabolic fact that breakfast is the most important meal of the day Based on what scientific evidence? Some do better without breakfast.
  - nikkwong 2y ago
    See my comment above
    - xcv123 2y ago
      Yes those papers show that it is good to skip breakfast. Replied above.
- pokot0 2y ago
  How so? On HN you state facts with references usually.
  - nikkwong 2y ago
    See my comment above
- jb1991 2y ago
  It is not at all a fact, though it was widely disbursed as one for many decades in the 20th century. In fact, recent studies have proven quite the opposite, that it has almost no effect on health or mortality if someone eats or skips breakfast. There are a few exceptions, like people who are at risk of heart failure should not skip meals, but for the vast majority of the public, skipping breakfast actually has proven to have some benefits.