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> they do have remote navigators/coaches who tell the cars what to do if it gets stuck/confused, but they're not directly driving the car, they're telling it wh

> they do have remote navigators/coaches who tell the cars what to do if it gets stuck/confused, but they're not directly driving the car, they're telling it where to go That sounds a lot like remote operation. Waymo is notoriously tight-lipped about this. Look at the number of journalists and reporters who have, over the years, asked very basic questions, like: 1. How often do remote operators intervene? 2. How many miles are driven per intervention? How does this compare to FSD? 3. How much of a typical ride is remotely operated and not actually driven by the car itself? Waymo never provides answers, and one can only imagine it is because they are not proud of the answers.

TulliusCicero 2y ago
> That sounds a lot like remote operation. If you have a friend in the front passenger seat directing you where to go, are they operating the car?
labrador 2y ago
I really don't understand why they aren't transparent about this, but judging by the downvotes I'm getting it seems people really, really want to believe they are intelligent and independent self-driving machines. It's so much more futuristic with a "wow" factor that attracts press attention and future investement.
- ra7 2y ago
  The downvotes are because your suspicions are entirely wrong. There’s no remote “driving” or “take over”. They wrote a blog post on how it works just a few weeks ago: https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response/ https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response/
  - labrador 2y ago
    So I've learned but it's not reassuring because the safer option would be to give a remote operator the ability to take over
    - ra7 2y ago
      That would be the least safe option due to network latencies involved.
      - labrador 2y ago
        Drone operators in Ukraine seem to do fine and besides, I'm talking about having the option, not using it 100% of the time
        ra7 2y ago
        Surely, it's obvious that Waymo operates in a different safety critical setting? It's a 5000 pound vehicle with pedestrians and other vehicles around it. You can't depend on a network connection to prevent injuries and deaths.
        labrador 2y ago
        Alphabet has way more money to spend on it than Ukrainians. I was a professional driver in a couple of jobs and as far as I can tell Google Waymo doesn't care about the millions of Americans they want to put out of work, possibly by having cheap foreign labor drive their cars, so you see I can't let it go that easily
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
verdverm 2y ago
> Waymo never provides answers Found this by searching "waymo stats" https://waymo.com/blog/2023/12/waymo-significantly-outperforms-comparable-human-benchmarks-over-7-million/#:~:text=When%20considering%20all%20locations%20together,2.78%20for%20the%20human%20benchmark https://waymo.com/blog/2023/12/waymo-significantly-outperfor...
- lopkeny12ko 2y ago
  That article does not answer any of the 3 questions I proposed.
  - verdverm 2y ago
    It's an example of how easy it is to find some numbers they posted, countering that they "never" do I'm not trying to answer your question because I don't want to put in the time with someone who seems to only want to be combative in conversation
    - lopkeny12ko 2y ago
      Case in point. Plugging your ears and shouting does not invalidate the question. These are very basic questions that, if Waymo were at all confident about their technology, would not hesitate to answer. And most of these are just simple numbers! Like stating, the number of miles per intervention is 10. Yet that number is nowhere to be found from Waymo's press relations department.
      - AlotOfReading 2y ago
        Having seen how the sausage is made, a lack of confidence in what the numbers show is not why the information is withheld. The numbers are highly relevant to competitors and anything that could potentially be used to build a negative media narrative is very carefully considered before release. Cruise had their numbers leaked during the incident last year and they came up in several negative media pieces despite being fairly good overall.
    - 2y ago
TheAlchemist 2y ago
Re 2 question - Tesla doesn't provide any reliable stat on miles per intervention neither, so you would not be able to compare anyway.

TulliusCicero 2y ago

> That sounds a lot like remote operation. If you have a friend in the front passenger seat directing you where to go, are they operating the car?

labrador 2y ago

I really don't understand why they aren't transparent about this, but judging by the downvotes I'm getting it seems people really, really want to believe they are intelligent and independent self-driving machines. It's so much more futuristic with a "wow" factor that attracts press attention and future investement.

ra7 2y ago
The downvotes are because your suspicions are entirely wrong. There’s no remote “driving” or “take over”. They wrote a blog post on how it works just a few weeks ago: https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response/ https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response/
- labrador 2y ago
  So I've learned but it's not reassuring because the safer option would be to give a remote operator the ability to take over
  - ra7 2y ago
    That would be the least safe option due to network latencies involved.
    - labrador 2y ago
      Drone operators in Ukraine seem to do fine and besides, I'm talking about having the option, not using it 100% of the time
      - ra7 2y ago
        Surely, it's obvious that Waymo operates in a different safety critical setting? It's a 5000 pound vehicle with pedestrians and other vehicles around it. You can't depend on a network connection to prevent injuries and deaths.
        labrador 2y ago
        Alphabet has way more money to spend on it than Ukrainians. I was a professional driver in a couple of jobs and as far as I can tell Google Waymo doesn't care about the millions of Americans they want to put out of work, possibly by having cheap foreign labor drive their cars, so you see I can't let it go that easily
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]

verdverm 2y ago

> Waymo never provides answers Found this by searching "waymo stats" https://waymo.com/blog/2023/12/waymo-significantly-outperforms-comparable-human-benchmarks-over-7-million/#:~:text=When%20considering%20all%20locations%20together,2.78%20for%20the%20human%20benchmark https://waymo.com/blog/2023/12/waymo-significantly-outperfor...

lopkeny12ko 2y ago
That article does not answer any of the 3 questions I proposed.
- verdverm 2y ago
  It's an example of how easy it is to find some numbers they posted, countering that they "never" do I'm not trying to answer your question because I don't want to put in the time with someone who seems to only want to be combative in conversation
  - lopkeny12ko 2y ago
    Case in point. Plugging your ears and shouting does not invalidate the question. These are very basic questions that, if Waymo were at all confident about their technology, would not hesitate to answer. And most of these are just simple numbers! Like stating, the number of miles per intervention is 10. Yet that number is nowhere to be found from Waymo's press relations department.
    - AlotOfReading 2y ago
      Having seen how the sausage is made, a lack of confidence in what the numbers show is not why the information is withheld. The numbers are highly relevant to competitors and anything that could potentially be used to build a negative media narrative is very carefully considered before release. Cruise had their numbers leaked during the incident last year and they came up in several negative media pieces despite being fairly good overall.
  - 2y ago

TheAlchemist 2y ago

Re 2 question - Tesla doesn't provide any reliable stat on miles per intervention neither, so you would not be able to compare anyway.