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The issue is that the "airbnb" areas drive normal citizens out which during off-seasons drains foot traffic making local shops go out of business which further

The issue is that the "airbnb" areas drive normal citizens out which during off-seasons drains foot traffic making local shops go out of business which further complicates the problem. Not to mention that most tourists don't even sit around the local area, but rather go to the city attractions. Airbnb and resident housing areas are just not compatible, they have different needs and require different infrastructure. Hotels are built around infrastructure supporting tourism and are much healthier for cities.

dnissley 2y ago
Businesses are unable to plan around seasonality? What's up with that? In the US, businesses in touristy areas often will shut down for the slow season.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  It's difficult to make work economically, other than shuttering for part of the year. Which is why tourist resort towns and stadium areas tend to have a lot of closed shops when they're not "on". Which in turn makes them less attractive for year-round residents, which spirals into intensifying seasonality.
  - kjkjadksj 2y ago
    When I think of places dominated by tourism its not the tourism that did it. Its that the tourism is what is left after little other job growth in any other sector after whatever impetus that triggered building the town in the first places ceased to exist.
    - ethbr1 2y ago
      My personal example would be the old Turner Field in Atlanta. Major sports team, but the area was a wasteland, because everything was developed around the 50,000 people flooding in for one afternoon. Parking lots, traffic flow, food stands. The actual neighborhood was pretty dead. Braves move up to a new stadium in Cobb county, some redevelopment, and now the old neighborhood is flourishing. Saw the same as a (briefly) Florida resident. I think it's difficult to establish "normal" development in an area subject to tourism tides, because many of the decisions are mutually exclusive. Either {support tourism} or {support long term residential development}. And money intersects with politics, so eventually one set of interests win out.
      - kjkjadksj 2y ago
        Atlanta is a diversified economy though. When I think tourist dominated I think tourism is the main industry. Places like in the Caribbean that had to turn to that industry after the economics of whatever former niche cash crop the imperialists grew was obviated due to globalism.
- kachapopopow 2y ago
  Huge difference between a local business supporting daily needs versus a tourist focused business. Not to mention different infrastructure.
jorvi 2y ago
The problem with hotel rooms is that they’re more expensive, get much more expensive per additional person, and don’t have the amenities of an appartement. If I’m somewhere with a group for longer than three days, we want to be able to hang somewhere and cook our own food. The only other thing that offers this feature set is private rooms in hostels, and those are both rare and nearly always fully booked. I’m not saying having a good base for vacationing is anywhere near as important as residential housing supply, but saying “just book hotels lol” takes a very dim view on AirBnBs.
- silverpepsi 2y ago
  "we want to be able to hang somewhere" ...just saying because I'm sorry I can't contain myself: This is exactly the use case Airbnb doesn't solve. I fly half-way across the world to meet my parents on vacation and almost without fail the only Airbnb I can find (or all the ones I can find) have a strict rule against guests. Hence I can't have my parents over 10 minutes to drink tea because if the owner, big brother, finds out I'll lose my entire remaining month of rent and be forcibly expelled. In Europe this is not joke, often a loss of $2000+ I truly hate Airbnb. Luckily since my parents only stay a week they can afford to stay in a hotel. Invariable we "hang out" with me sitting at the foot of their bed. These "rules" become extremely oppressive when your home most of the year is an Airbnb room like me. This is why I use Booking or local corporate owned platfroms instead whenever possible
  - jorvi 2y ago
    I mean, that sucks a lot, but I have never ever encountered what you just described. N=1.
  - resolutebat 2y ago
    Overnight guests are typically banned, but I've never seen an Airbnb listing that says you can't have someone over for a cup of tea.
    - dylan604 2y ago
      And how would they know? Oh right, hidden cameras. Nothing about airbnb is attractive to me any more.
TheOtherHobbes 2y ago
And then there's the effect on property prices. AirBnBs charge international prices, which creates a property market skewed by international investment. I live in a tourist area, and prices here have gone up by between 100% at the low end to over 500% at the high end. These are mostly holiday homes and holiday rentals, and the locals can't afford to live here any more - either renting or buying. One of the results has been a huge political shift rightwards, with increasing hostility to tourists and immigrants. Of course the far right cynically take advantage of this issue, and of course they have no intention whatsoever of fixing anything. But the fact that it's an issue at all is causing huge problems.
- mistermann 2y ago
  > Of course the far right cynically take advantage of this issue, and of course they have no intention whatsoever of fixing anything. Have you any pejorative memes for "liberal" "democracy", which is what broke it in the first place, or do they get a free pass as usual?
- pas 2y ago
  > charge international prices, which creates a property market skewed by international investment. That ship has looong sailed. Especially in the days of full-time remote work jobs. Especially in the EU. I wish a big barrel of industrial-grade luck to the good people of Barcelona! They definitely need it, because the changes they implemented so far (introducing rent control) did not help.

dnissley 2y ago

Businesses are unable to plan around seasonality? What's up with that? In the US, businesses in touristy areas often will shut down for the slow season.

ethbr1 2y ago
It's difficult to make work economically, other than shuttering for part of the year. Which is why tourist resort towns and stadium areas tend to have a lot of closed shops when they're not "on". Which in turn makes them less attractive for year-round residents, which spirals into intensifying seasonality.
- kjkjadksj 2y ago
  When I think of places dominated by tourism its not the tourism that did it. Its that the tourism is what is left after little other job growth in any other sector after whatever impetus that triggered building the town in the first places ceased to exist.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    My personal example would be the old Turner Field in Atlanta. Major sports team, but the area was a wasteland, because everything was developed around the 50,000 people flooding in for one afternoon. Parking lots, traffic flow, food stands. The actual neighborhood was pretty dead. Braves move up to a new stadium in Cobb county, some redevelopment, and now the old neighborhood is flourishing. Saw the same as a (briefly) Florida resident. I think it's difficult to establish "normal" development in an area subject to tourism tides, because many of the decisions are mutually exclusive. Either {support tourism} or {support long term residential development}. And money intersects with politics, so eventually one set of interests win out.
    - kjkjadksj 2y ago
      Atlanta is a diversified economy though. When I think tourist dominated I think tourism is the main industry. Places like in the Caribbean that had to turn to that industry after the economics of whatever former niche cash crop the imperialists grew was obviated due to globalism.
kachapopopow 2y ago
Huge difference between a local business supporting daily needs versus a tourist focused business. Not to mention different infrastructure.

jorvi 2y ago

The problem with hotel rooms is that they’re more expensive, get much more expensive per additional person, and don’t have the amenities of an appartement. If I’m somewhere with a group for longer than three days, we want to be able to hang somewhere and cook our own food. The only other thing that offers this feature set is private rooms in hostels, and those are both rare and nearly always fully booked. I’m not saying having a good base for vacationing is anywhere near as important as residential housing supply, but saying “just book hotels lol” takes a very dim view on AirBnBs.

silverpepsi 2y ago
"we want to be able to hang somewhere" ...just saying because I'm sorry I can't contain myself: This is exactly the use case Airbnb doesn't solve. I fly half-way across the world to meet my parents on vacation and almost without fail the only Airbnb I can find (or all the ones I can find) have a strict rule against guests. Hence I can't have my parents over 10 minutes to drink tea because if the owner, big brother, finds out I'll lose my entire remaining month of rent and be forcibly expelled. In Europe this is not joke, often a loss of $2000+ I truly hate Airbnb. Luckily since my parents only stay a week they can afford to stay in a hotel. Invariable we "hang out" with me sitting at the foot of their bed. These "rules" become extremely oppressive when your home most of the year is an Airbnb room like me. This is why I use Booking or local corporate owned platfroms instead whenever possible
- jorvi 2y ago
  I mean, that sucks a lot, but I have never ever encountered what you just described. N=1.
- resolutebat 2y ago
  Overnight guests are typically banned, but I've never seen an Airbnb listing that says you can't have someone over for a cup of tea.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    And how would they know? Oh right, hidden cameras. Nothing about airbnb is attractive to me any more.

TheOtherHobbes 2y ago

And then there's the effect on property prices. AirBnBs charge international prices, which creates a property market skewed by international investment. I live in a tourist area, and prices here have gone up by between 100% at the low end to over 500% at the high end. These are mostly holiday homes and holiday rentals, and the locals can't afford to live here any more - either renting or buying. One of the results has been a huge political shift rightwards, with increasing hostility to tourists and immigrants. Of course the far right cynically take advantage of this issue, and of course they have no intention whatsoever of fixing anything. But the fact that it's an issue at all is causing huge problems.

mistermann 2y ago
> Of course the far right cynically take advantage of this issue, and of course they have no intention whatsoever of fixing anything. Have you any pejorative memes for "liberal" "democracy", which is what broke it in the first place, or do they get a free pass as usual?
pas 2y ago
> charge international prices, which creates a property market skewed by international investment. That ship has looong sailed. Especially in the days of full-time remote work jobs. Especially in the EU. I wish a big barrel of industrial-grade luck to the good people of Barcelona! They definitely need it, because the changes they implemented so far (introducing rent control) did not help.