4 ms·

> He and Hunt concluded that the people of Rapa Nui continued to thrive well after 1600, which would warrant a rethinking of the popular narrative that the isla

> He and Hunt concluded that the people of Rapa Nui continued to thrive well after 1600, which would warrant a rethinking of the popular narrative that the island was destitute when Europeans arrived in 1722. Wait, so the thesis here is that they never actually collapsed, that the 3,000 person population noted by Europeans was always the stable population of the island? It also suggests that they did cut down all their trees, but they did so not to build Moai statues, but to sort of kickstart their lithic agriculture. I don't know enough to know whether cutting all your trees down and not being able to grow them back counts as an ecological collapse, or whether that was the only way they could sustain even three thousand people. I'd love to hear the other side of this argument. I'm no expert, but this sounds weird to me.

avar 2y ago
It counts as ecological collapse, but that's not being discussed here, but whether the island became destitute, triggering population collapse. Imagine paving over the entire Amazon and replacing it with monocrop greenhouses. It would be massive ecological collapse, but in terms of producing food calories for humans it might become more productive.
yreg 2y ago
There were also other kinds of collapse - they forgot writing, they forgot how they’ve made/transported the statues, perhaps other technology as well. They have also toppled the statues and gave up on their gods so there must have been some major societal shift.
- soperj 2y ago
  How did they topple them? they were buried up to the head?
  - onlypassingthru 2y ago
    People just knocked them over. If you grew up on a farm, you've probably heard of cow tipping. If you grew up on Rapa Nui, you've probably heard of moai tipping.
    - ComputerGuru 2y ago
      Cow tipping is, according to all reputable sources, largely an urban myth about what takes place in the rural regions.
      - IncreasePosts 2y ago
        As someone who grew up in cow country, I would always hear about cow tipping from people who didn't know anything about cows. The story would almost always go like this: Some Dude: We went cow tipping last night, it was hilarious Me: So, you actually tipped a 1300 lbs cow over? Some Dude: Well...I didn't, but Jake did. Me: So you saw Jake tip a cow over? Some Dude: Well...no, but Jake told me that he did it and I believed him.
        armada651 2y ago
        In actuality Jake was making a pun and had simply fed a cow a $5 bill.
    - adastra22 2y ago
      The moai are full torso statues with just the head showing above ground.
      - yreg 2y ago
        Actually no, that's not how they were designed. The Moai statues were made in a quarry inland and transported to the coastline, where they were set on stone platforms (called ahu) fully above ground. When the Europeans first visited there were hundreds of them standing all around the coastline, always looking outward at the sea. It is believed that they were meant to protect the island. The Rapa Nui people later toppled _all_ of the statues and destroyed them. The only ones that were spared are the ones that were lost in transport from the quarry -> and these are the ones that are often partially buried and are so well known today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moai
        2y ago
  - yreg 2y ago
    See my comment in the subthread. The statues that were successfully placed were not buried and they were all toppled by 1868. The buried ones you know were never transported to their destination.
- contingencies 2y ago
  they forgot writing, they forgot how they’ve made/transported the statues, perhaps other technology as well. Boats come to mind.
pvaldes 2y ago
> I don't know enough to know whether cutting all your trees down and not being able to grow them back counts as an ecological collapse, or whether that was the only way they could sustain even three thousand people. Knowing the genus of those palms is essential to answer this question
- onlypassingthru 2y ago
  It wasn't palms, it was toromiro. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophora_toromiro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophora_toromiro
  - zarathustreal 2y ago
    But.. that guy said “genus”!
  - pvaldes 2y ago
    Nope, not the legume. Sophora are the "new order" that toke the scorched place. The survivors that nobody wanted because they are legumes. The real deal were in the Paschalococos palms. As I suspected those were included in the tribu Cocoseae so they were the most important plant in the island for humans. When the palms went extinct in 1650 the society entered in a whirlwind extinction situation. Rapa nui inhabitants commit ecological suicide to themselves and the rats and foreigners carrying diseases give them the final blow. If you replace Paschalococos with Sophora there is a hidden big collateral effect. Even if the island is still covered in luscious green is not the same family of green.

avar 2y ago

It counts as ecological collapse, but that's not being discussed here, but whether the island became destitute, triggering population collapse. Imagine paving over the entire Amazon and replacing it with monocrop greenhouses. It would be massive ecological collapse, but in terms of producing food calories for humans it might become more productive.

yreg 2y ago

There were also other kinds of collapse - they forgot writing, they forgot how they’ve made/transported the statues, perhaps other technology as well. They have also toppled the statues and gave up on their gods so there must have been some major societal shift.

soperj 2y ago
How did they topple them? they were buried up to the head?
- onlypassingthru 2y ago
  People just knocked them over. If you grew up on a farm, you've probably heard of cow tipping. If you grew up on Rapa Nui, you've probably heard of moai tipping.
  - ComputerGuru 2y ago
    Cow tipping is, according to all reputable sources, largely an urban myth about what takes place in the rural regions.
    - IncreasePosts 2y ago
      As someone who grew up in cow country, I would always hear about cow tipping from people who didn't know anything about cows. The story would almost always go like this: Some Dude: We went cow tipping last night, it was hilarious Me: So, you actually tipped a 1300 lbs cow over? Some Dude: Well...I didn't, but Jake did. Me: So you saw Jake tip a cow over? Some Dude: Well...no, but Jake told me that he did it and I believed him.
      - armada651 2y ago
        In actuality Jake was making a pun and had simply fed a cow a $5 bill.
  - adastra22 2y ago
    The moai are full torso statues with just the head showing above ground.
    - yreg 2y ago
      Actually no, that's not how they were designed. The Moai statues were made in a quarry inland and transported to the coastline, where they were set on stone platforms (called ahu) fully above ground. When the Europeans first visited there were hundreds of them standing all around the coastline, always looking outward at the sea. It is believed that they were meant to protect the island. The Rapa Nui people later toppled _all_ of the statues and destroyed them. The only ones that were spared are the ones that were lost in transport from the quarry -> and these are the ones that are often partially buried and are so well known today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moai
      - 2y ago
- yreg 2y ago
  See my comment in the subthread. The statues that were successfully placed were not buried and they were all toppled by 1868. The buried ones you know were never transported to their destination.
contingencies 2y ago
they forgot writing, they forgot how they’ve made/transported the statues, perhaps other technology as well. Boats come to mind.

pvaldes 2y ago

> I don't know enough to know whether cutting all your trees down and not being able to grow them back counts as an ecological collapse, or whether that was the only way they could sustain even three thousand people. Knowing the genus of those palms is essential to answer this question

onlypassingthru 2y ago
It wasn't palms, it was toromiro. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophora_toromiro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophora_toromiro
- zarathustreal 2y ago
  But.. that guy said “genus”!
- pvaldes 2y ago
  Nope, not the legume. Sophora are the "new order" that toke the scorched place. The survivors that nobody wanted because they are legumes. The real deal were in the Paschalococos palms. As I suspected those were included in the tribu Cocoseae so they were the most important plant in the island for humans. When the palms went extinct in 1650 the society entered in a whirlwind extinction situation. Rapa nui inhabitants commit ecological suicide to themselves and the rats and foreigners carrying diseases give them the final blow. If you replace Paschalococos with Sophora there is a hidden big collateral effect. Even if the island is still covered in luscious green is not the same family of green.