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I think it's understandable. If they allow any dependence on a community that includes the West, it will be snatched away simply for the sake of damaging China.

I think it's understandable. If they allow any dependence on a community that includes the West, it will be snatched away simply for the sake of damaging China. Western governments have openly stated that their enemy is Chinese prosperity. Huawei has been enemy #1, simply for being successful. I think the question would be if through China's closer alliances with other BRICS and the global South, would they feel comfortable opening up to developers outside the NATOsphere? They may have just soured on FOSS altogether, seeing as it doesn't allow them to accrue any advantage, and the West will simply ban any sharing in China's direction if US demagogues feel that it might hurt. > you need to send them a government id, and their recommended getting started paths are all using some cloud workstation & cloud device testing setups. The barriers to "hello world" are enormous. This seems like they're going to attempt to control things by keeping it on Chinese infrastructure, and only letting allies onto that infrastructure. Maybe that tactic might ultimately lead to China becoming a feasible alternative to US infrastructure in the rest of the world. They will probably have to understand that other people won't tolerate the sort of control they extend over their own citizens' network usage to do that. They'll either have to partition their infrastructure for export, or loosen up domestically. Chinese people are generally patriotic and know what they're up against, they don't have to be watched like children. As the Western internet goes in the direction of the Chinese internet, maybe China can turn around and go in the other direction. aside: I love that they didn't give this language an English name, or even a name that an English speaker would have a clue of how to pronounce.

jauntywundrkind 2y ago
Non-open source development seems incredibly hard to pull off. Apple is basically the one and only company that's not suffering too badly for doing their own thing. > If they allow any dependence on a community that includes the West, it will be snatched away simply for the sake of damaging China. I don't think the West cares, at all. In this issue in specific & in general. I'm in DC. We don't have jobs or openings to go screw with China here. Yeah, we go help our ally the Philippines when for example China is sending dudes with swords to attack resupply missions, and yeah there's some politics & optics, but the West would, I believe, love to see a successful & prosperous & healthy China rise, if it could do so without having to exploit or aggress to do so. The jobs in DC are to try to plan for & work towards a civil world. We don't have troll farms here. We don't have giant disinformation machines (well, to be fair we have Fox News & other machinery in the pockets of the ultra capitalists). It's really hard for me to imagine what HarmonyOS sabotage would like. It's hard for me to imagine Apple or Google or Salesforce or Shopify or whomever going out of their way to go screw with a competing OS. I don't see the CIA or NSA or whomever taking action. I do think there probably is a bit of a fear/control based response Huawei is going through, but the risk of becoming ungovernable seems very low to me. You can still own and moderate an open source project, an open community. You can still steer your own open source effort. It's so hard for me to imagine the kind of organic growth that leads to lasting success happening, if Huawei stays on such a narrow productized track for their OS. There's such a deep irony to me that the Western socialization of software has served us so so well, but so few other places seem to be able to recreate those values & get that same engagement & organic growth.
wumeow 2y ago
> aside: I love that they didn't give this language an English name, or even a name that an English speaker would have a clue of how to pronounce. I love that they use English for all of the language’s keywords, base types, and source code examples.

jauntywundrkind 2y ago

Non-open source development seems incredibly hard to pull off. Apple is basically the one and only company that's not suffering too badly for doing their own thing. > If they allow any dependence on a community that includes the West, it will be snatched away simply for the sake of damaging China. I don't think the West cares, at all. In this issue in specific & in general. I'm in DC. We don't have jobs or openings to go screw with China here. Yeah, we go help our ally the Philippines when for example China is sending dudes with swords to attack resupply missions, and yeah there's some politics & optics, but the West would, I believe, love to see a successful & prosperous & healthy China rise, if it could do so without having to exploit or aggress to do so. The jobs in DC are to try to plan for & work towards a civil world. We don't have troll farms here. We don't have giant disinformation machines (well, to be fair we have Fox News & other machinery in the pockets of the ultra capitalists). It's really hard for me to imagine what HarmonyOS sabotage would like. It's hard for me to imagine Apple or Google or Salesforce or Shopify or whomever going out of their way to go screw with a competing OS. I don't see the CIA or NSA or whomever taking action. I do think there probably is a bit of a fear/control based response Huawei is going through, but the risk of becoming ungovernable seems very low to me. You can still own and moderate an open source project, an open community. You can still steer your own open source effort. It's so hard for me to imagine the kind of organic growth that leads to lasting success happening, if Huawei stays on such a narrow productized track for their OS. There's such a deep irony to me that the Western socialization of software has served us so so well, but so few other places seem to be able to recreate those values & get that same engagement & organic growth.

wumeow 2y ago

> aside: I love that they didn't give this language an English name, or even a name that an English speaker would have a clue of how to pronounce. I love that they use English for all of the language’s keywords, base types, and source code examples.