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> Node should absolutely still go "we're finally deprecating CJS. You should use ESM, and for the next 2 years it's business as usual but after that we won't su

> Node should absolutely still go "we're finally deprecating CJS. You should use ESM, and for the next 2 years it's business as usual but after that we won't support CJS unless your project marks itself as such in package.json, and 2 years after that, we're removing CJS support entirely". So this has two consequences: 1. NPM is split in two. All the packages that don't upgrade are useless. If you rely on one, you either need to do the work to port it (and all of its dependencies) before you can even consider migrating your own code. Or pray that someone else will do it. 2. Companies simply won't upgrade. The last version of Node to support CJS will persist for a decade or more. It might get forked and make it harder for Node to actually drive the ecosystem forward. If you think io.js won't happen again as a result of a decision like this, you're mistaken.

TheRealPomax 2y ago
1) no they aren't, just like Python 2.7 libraries still work just fine with python 2.7 and that's fine and entirely on you (HI GRAPHICS INDUSTRY!). If a 5 year old library doesn't work with current Node, that's perfectly fine. Kind of already the case right now anyway, so nothing new under the sun there. Packages that are still actively used, though, get 4 years to uplift. that is plenty of time. 2) how is that different from companies that still use Node 14 or even 10 in production today because their dependency chains make it impossible to uplift even without taking CJS vs. ESM into consideration? Everyone who's already stuck in the past is going to stay stuck in the past, anyone who can afford to uplift their codebase over two to four years will be better off, including the entire JS dev landscape. Let's not pretend that the bad habits of others should hold everyone else back. That's how we got here in the first place.

TheRealPomax 2y ago

1) no they aren't, just like Python 2.7 libraries still work just fine with python 2.7 and that's fine and entirely on you (HI GRAPHICS INDUSTRY!). If a 5 year old library doesn't work with current Node, that's perfectly fine. Kind of already the case right now anyway, so nothing new under the sun there. Packages that are still actively used, though, get 4 years to uplift. that is plenty of time. 2) how is that different from companies that still use Node 14 or even 10 in production today because their dependency chains make it impossible to uplift even without taking CJS vs. ESM into consideration? Everyone who's already stuck in the past is going to stay stuck in the past, anyone who can afford to uplift their codebase over two to four years will be better off, including the entire JS dev landscape. Let's not pretend that the bad habits of others should hold everyone else back. That's how we got here in the first place.