4 ms·

The transfer was over a distance of 5 inches. I suppose it's marginally more convenient to simply park your car over a coil to charge it than to get out and pl

The transfer was over a distance of 5 inches. I suppose it's marginally more convenient to simply park your car over a coil to charge it than to get out and plug it in, but is it really worth it?

malfist 2y ago
Typically I only plug in when I'm below 60%, if there was a coil, I'd be leaving the house every morning with a fully charged battery. There's probably also benefits for public spaces, and not having to worry about the plug type.
the_sleaze_ 2y ago
I'm imagining roads where cars charge at stoplights and the owner gets charged for the service at the end of the month. Same for parking lots.
- pixl97 2y ago
  I can imagine it, but all I'm imagining is car companies doing a poor job on the protocol security and I get a $10k bill for power at the end of the month because someone spoofed my car token.
- rasz 2y ago
  Only if you can imagine all cars with <5 inch ride height and magical coil positioners carefully aligning coils without moving your car or the road beneath.
  - the_sleaze_ 2y ago
    I'll take the bait. We don't need magical coil or car positioners, cars do a great job of moving themselves already. What we need is targeting. Similar to how automatic car washes work. Just a "move forward 6 inches .. 2 inches". Non-trivial but not an unacceptably high bar. Then you could have a dead simple dropping mechanism to lower a charger down to charge - only within <5 inches of the roadway. When you drive off it can just retract like airplane wheels. I actually like it more now.
xnx 2y ago
I'm surprised there isn't some MagSafe style connector for EVs. Seems like it would combine the benefits of direct connection with the convenience of hands free operation. Part of the reason might be that I think manufacturers like to keep the charger away from the front of the vehicle to keep it from getting damaged in fender-benders.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  I'm a volunteer firefighter. It's not literally magsafe, but most of our apparatus has a special female socket for charging the auxiliary batteries that automatically ejects the male plug when the ignition turns on.
  - belthesar 2y ago
    I'm not gonna lie, that's some brilliant design. Y'all don't have time to check all the things when you have to get to an emergency site, but I imagine you also need your lights and pumps and such to work.
  - xnx 2y ago
    Very cool. I'd never heard of that. Definitely removes half the hassle. It seems like EVs could implement a plug "pusher outer" that could do the same. https://kussmaul.com/super-auto-ejects https://kussmaul.com/super-auto-ejects
kvdveer 2y ago
Given the popularity of wireless phone charging, just plugging in a cable is a step many people would like to skip.
- GordonS 2y ago
  Yes, if like it to be as simple and hands-off as possible - but absolutely not at the expense of energy efficiency.
  - simcop2387 2y ago
    It'll sadly always be at the expense of energy efficiency but I suspect that if it can be brought to 98-99% then it'd be good enough to be a wash from the environmental impact of maintaining and fixing cables from users damaging them when driving off while still plugged in (like they do at gas stations with ICE cars even today). Though I've not looked at any data/info on how often this happens so I can't say anything for certain.
segasaturn 2y ago
I wonder what happens in that 5 inch gap between the car and the charger. Will any bugs that happen to fly by get zapped?
- anamexis 2y ago
  No, it's just magnetism.
  - klabb3 2y ago
    Is this a reassuring statement? What happens with loose screws and such? And at some point it’s gotta be interacting with biological matter, no? I know nothing about this stuff though.
  - rented_mule 2y ago
    Don't get too close with your pacemaker.
pveierland 2y ago
Beyond convenience, potential advantages include: - Reduce maintenance cost and increasing uptime of car charging parks by removing cabling and plugs operated by the user. - Simplify integration of autonomous vehicles of different sizes - normal cars, smaller delivery vehicles etc, that could integrate with the same charging areas.
sharpshadow 2y ago
For autonomous vehicles almost mandatory if you want to charge them without maintaince personnel.
- bigtex 2y ago
  What ever happened to the Tesla snake? They made one video of it to never be mentioned again.
- throwaway42668 2y ago
  Once you're running a fleet of autonomous vehicles, whatever century that finally becomes a reality, then it makes sense to optimize out of the operation a few people who make at or near minimum wage.
  - AndrewDucker 2y ago
    Waymo are running multiple fleets of autonomous vehicles right now.
wolrah 2y ago
Not to mention that these kinds of systems tend to be very particular about alignment. The amount of effort saved in not plugging in a cable would be very easy to use up if the vehicle has to be precisely parked for it to work. Also let's keep in mind the claimed efficiency of 95%. That's very good for a wireless power transfer system but if we're talking about 270kW that's still 13.5kW which is getting converted in to heat in the system. That's more power being wasted than a standard home L2 EVSE on a 50A can even deliver, just to avoid plugging in a cable. I could certainly see specific applications where it'd make sense, like city buses where the pads could be installed at bus stops allowing buses to run their loops effectively infinitely. I'm sure there are also plenty of industrial use cases where a vehicle is constantly moving around a job site but stopping regularly at specific locations. I don't see any reason to desire this as a consumer though.
- simcop2387 2y ago
  Here is one reason I can see this being a good thing at least. It would let something like an office park setup charging spots such that there's nothing that the user touches to do the charging. Meaning that you're not going to have people drive off while still plugged in, or not plugging in properly, or having otherwise damaged plugs, etc. So it might make sense for a larger installation to be more maintenance friendly.
  - rimunroe 2y ago
    > Meaning that you're not going to have people drive off while still plugged in, or not plugging in properly Are there any electric cars which let you drive while plugged in? I own an EV and have driven a couple others. None of them allow you to leave park while plugged in. I also can't imagine how you'd manage to plug in incorrectly. Is this something people routinely do?
  - wolrah 2y ago
    > Meaning that you're not going to have people drive off while still plugged in This is not possible. > or not plugging in properly This is not really a problem. > or having otherwise damaged plugs, etc. This is a real issue, businesses offering L2 charging as a convenience have little incentive to maintain their equipment and users often don't put the cables back in the dock when done, inviting damage. Fortunately there's already a solution widely used in other parts of the world, which is for the EVSE (the box most people call the charger that sits in between the mains and the EV and negotiates operating parameters with the actual charger in the car) to simply have a socket on it in to which a user plugs their own cable. This means there's no captive cable to be damaged, each user comes with their own that's in whatever condition they've gotten it in to, and it also makes the installs both smaller and cheaper so more spaces can be given access to power for the same cost. SAE J3400, the standard that officially adopted the "NACS" connector, brings this to the US. It introduces the "Universal AC Socket-Outlet" where a compatible EVSE will have a J3068 connector, which is the three-phase AC charging standard and conveniently uses the same "Type 2" connector as most European EVs already have. The driver will then be expected to bring their own cable that goes from the J3068 outlet to whatever input their vehicle has, be it classic J1772, new J3400, or even a medium/heavy vehicle that natively accepts J3068 and can make use of three-phase power if available. This means it's compatible with basically every mass production EV in North America other than the Nissan Leaf. A few of the older '90s EVs that used J1773 MagneCharge won't work either, but the Ranger EV and others that used the Avcon version of J1772 could technically be supported if someone made an appropriate cable.
moralestapia 2y ago
It's a demonstration. It was never meant to be in your garage. If/when the technology is mature enough for that, somebody will design a product around it. Only then it can evaluated from a consumer's perspective.

The transfer was over a distance of 5 inches. I suppose it's marginally more convenient to simply park your car over a coil to charge it than to get out and plug it in, but is it really worth it?

malfist 2y ago

Typically I only plug in when I'm below 60%, if there was a coil, I'd be leaving the house every morning with a fully charged battery. There's probably also benefits for public spaces, and not having to worry about the plug type.

the_sleaze_ 2y ago

I'm imagining roads where cars charge at stoplights and the owner gets charged for the service at the end of the month. Same for parking lots.

pixl97 2y ago
I can imagine it, but all I'm imagining is car companies doing a poor job on the protocol security and I get a $10k bill for power at the end of the month because someone spoofed my car token.
rasz 2y ago
Only if you can imagine all cars with <5 inch ride height and magical coil positioners carefully aligning coils without moving your car or the road beneath.
- the_sleaze_ 2y ago
  I'll take the bait. We don't need magical coil or car positioners, cars do a great job of moving themselves already. What we need is targeting. Similar to how automatic car washes work. Just a "move forward 6 inches .. 2 inches". Non-trivial but not an unacceptably high bar. Then you could have a dead simple dropping mechanism to lower a charger down to charge - only within <5 inches of the roadway. When you drive off it can just retract like airplane wheels. I actually like it more now.

xnx 2y ago

I'm surprised there isn't some MagSafe style connector for EVs. Seems like it would combine the benefits of direct connection with the convenience of hands free operation. Part of the reason might be that I think manufacturers like to keep the charger away from the front of the vehicle to keep it from getting damaged in fender-benders.

PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
I'm a volunteer firefighter. It's not literally magsafe, but most of our apparatus has a special female socket for charging the auxiliary batteries that automatically ejects the male plug when the ignition turns on.
- belthesar 2y ago
  I'm not gonna lie, that's some brilliant design. Y'all don't have time to check all the things when you have to get to an emergency site, but I imagine you also need your lights and pumps and such to work.
- xnx 2y ago
  Very cool. I'd never heard of that. Definitely removes half the hassle. It seems like EVs could implement a plug "pusher outer" that could do the same. https://kussmaul.com/super-auto-ejects https://kussmaul.com/super-auto-ejects

kvdveer 2y ago

Given the popularity of wireless phone charging, just plugging in a cable is a step many people would like to skip.

GordonS 2y ago
Yes, if like it to be as simple and hands-off as possible - but absolutely not at the expense of energy efficiency.
- simcop2387 2y ago
  It'll sadly always be at the expense of energy efficiency but I suspect that if it can be brought to 98-99% then it'd be good enough to be a wash from the environmental impact of maintaining and fixing cables from users damaging them when driving off while still plugged in (like they do at gas stations with ICE cars even today). Though I've not looked at any data/info on how often this happens so I can't say anything for certain.

segasaturn 2y ago

I wonder what happens in that 5 inch gap between the car and the charger. Will any bugs that happen to fly by get zapped?

anamexis 2y ago
No, it's just magnetism.
- klabb3 2y ago
  Is this a reassuring statement? What happens with loose screws and such? And at some point it’s gotta be interacting with biological matter, no? I know nothing about this stuff though.
- rented_mule 2y ago
  Don't get too close with your pacemaker.

pveierland 2y ago

Beyond convenience, potential advantages include: - Reduce maintenance cost and increasing uptime of car charging parks by removing cabling and plugs operated by the user. - Simplify integration of autonomous vehicles of different sizes - normal cars, smaller delivery vehicles etc, that could integrate with the same charging areas.

sharpshadow 2y ago

For autonomous vehicles almost mandatory if you want to charge them without maintaince personnel.

bigtex 2y ago
What ever happened to the Tesla snake? They made one video of it to never be mentioned again.
throwaway42668 2y ago
Once you're running a fleet of autonomous vehicles, whatever century that finally becomes a reality, then it makes sense to optimize out of the operation a few people who make at or near minimum wage.
- AndrewDucker 2y ago
  Waymo are running multiple fleets of autonomous vehicles right now.

wolrah 2y ago

Not to mention that these kinds of systems tend to be very particular about alignment. The amount of effort saved in not plugging in a cable would be very easy to use up if the vehicle has to be precisely parked for it to work. Also let's keep in mind the claimed efficiency of 95%. That's very good for a wireless power transfer system but if we're talking about 270kW that's still 13.5kW which is getting converted in to heat in the system. That's more power being wasted than a standard home L2 EVSE on a 50A can even deliver, just to avoid plugging in a cable. I could certainly see specific applications where it'd make sense, like city buses where the pads could be installed at bus stops allowing buses to run their loops effectively infinitely. I'm sure there are also plenty of industrial use cases where a vehicle is constantly moving around a job site but stopping regularly at specific locations. I don't see any reason to desire this as a consumer though.

simcop2387 2y ago
Here is one reason I can see this being a good thing at least. It would let something like an office park setup charging spots such that there's nothing that the user touches to do the charging. Meaning that you're not going to have people drive off while still plugged in, or not plugging in properly, or having otherwise damaged plugs, etc. So it might make sense for a larger installation to be more maintenance friendly.
- rimunroe 2y ago
  > Meaning that you're not going to have people drive off while still plugged in, or not plugging in properly Are there any electric cars which let you drive while plugged in? I own an EV and have driven a couple others. None of them allow you to leave park while plugged in. I also can't imagine how you'd manage to plug in incorrectly. Is this something people routinely do?
- wolrah 2y ago
  > Meaning that you're not going to have people drive off while still plugged in This is not possible. > or not plugging in properly This is not really a problem. > or having otherwise damaged plugs, etc. This is a real issue, businesses offering L2 charging as a convenience have little incentive to maintain their equipment and users often don't put the cables back in the dock when done, inviting damage. Fortunately there's already a solution widely used in other parts of the world, which is for the EVSE (the box most people call the charger that sits in between the mains and the EV and negotiates operating parameters with the actual charger in the car) to simply have a socket on it in to which a user plugs their own cable. This means there's no captive cable to be damaged, each user comes with their own that's in whatever condition they've gotten it in to, and it also makes the installs both smaller and cheaper so more spaces can be given access to power for the same cost. SAE J3400, the standard that officially adopted the "NACS" connector, brings this to the US. It introduces the "Universal AC Socket-Outlet" where a compatible EVSE will have a J3068 connector, which is the three-phase AC charging standard and conveniently uses the same "Type 2" connector as most European EVs already have. The driver will then be expected to bring their own cable that goes from the J3068 outlet to whatever input their vehicle has, be it classic J1772, new J3400, or even a medium/heavy vehicle that natively accepts J3068 and can make use of three-phase power if available. This means it's compatible with basically every mass production EV in North America other than the Nissan Leaf. A few of the older '90s EVs that used J1773 MagneCharge won't work either, but the Ranger EV and others that used the Avcon version of J1772 could technically be supported if someone made an appropriate cable.

moralestapia 2y ago

It's a demonstration. It was never meant to be in your garage. If/when the technology is mature enough for that, somebody will design a product around it. Only then it can evaluated from a consumer's perspective.