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So that their partner doesn’t think they are cheating.

by ttul 2y ago

jncfhnb 2y ago
Why would it imply they are cheating and not simply protecting themselves from their partner’s HIV?
- ttul 2y ago
  We are used to a western perspective on marriage, where the playing field is generally level between partners. In Africa, there is often a huge power imbalance between men and women in marriage. A woman particularly might want to keep her prescription status a secret because it suggests that she might be cheating on her husband. Even though it may seem obvious to us in the west that taking medication to avoid contracting HIV from our spouse is an obvious and reasonable thing to do, in Africa, it would be more culturally acceptable for the wife to remain vulnerable to contracting HIV from her husband because that would also infer that she is not sneaking around having sex with other men. Source: Was born in South Africa.
  - jncfhnb 2y ago
    Why would the woman getting HIV imply she cannot be cheating on her husband?
    - opprobium 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - cubefox 2y ago
        > From the perspective of the husband, the woman taking prep implies she is cheating. But that only makes sense if the husband thinks his wife doesn't believe he has HIV.
        vlovich123 2y ago
        >> You're digging for a logical explanation for a fundamentally illogical cultural problem and you aren't going to get it. > But that only makes sense if Reread and if you’re still not getting it, keep rereading your parent’s line that I highlighted for you.
        jncfhnb 2y ago
        Quoting this line is not a blanket pass to say whatever you want about a culture credibly.
        vlovich123 2y ago
        Well, you have an anecdote from someone claiming to be from SA saying that’s culturally the perception. Here’s a summary of research [1] on the topic concluding similar reasons (among others): > Several participants felt that they could stop taking PrEP when the need, as they saw it, had passed. Often this was to do with the nature of their current relationship, for example with a person regarded as unfaithful: “If I find someone that I will be in a relationship with and if he is not faithful, or I have started being unfaithful, then I will come back and get them.” And > On the basis of these findings, the authors suggest that take-up and continued use of PrEP is likely to remain subject to established social norms. These norms often relate to gender and they determine, for example, who decides what HIV prevention methods to use, and the extent to which a woman in a relationship might – or might not – be able to make and implement such choices. Just because something seems logical to you, doesn’t mean that social norms and pressures don’t superseded it. In fact, we even see it in our own cultural with people believing vaccines cause autism, the whole belief that ivermectin cures COVID-19, or flat earthers. What’s really impressive though is you having such a problem with this idea despite overwhelming objective evidence to the contrary being available online and people telling you their lived experience on this very website and you significantly discount the very real possibility that people can be illogical in their strongly held beliefs even if it seems nonsensical to you. If you know nothing about a subject, you’re likely to believe what all your peers tell you which is how misinformation gets a foothold. This misinformation can even come from nowhere. The point is that if enough people believe it, they can get others to believe it to. That’s literally how human belief systems work where beliefs spring out of nothing. [1] https://www.aidsmap.com/news/sep-2020/why-do-people-southern-africa-stop-taking-prep https://www.aidsmap.com/news/sep-2020/why-do-people-southern...
      - jncfhnb 2y ago
        No, that doesn’t make sense. And writing it off as an illogical cultural problem is just lazy. I’ll believe these guys are assholes. I don’t believe they’re just consistently idiots. If the men refused to acknowledge that they had HIV and refused to allow their wives to get prep, then the logical consequence is that the wife gets HIV and the men are forced to confront the fact that either the husbands themselves have HIV or the wife is cheating and got it from someone else. It seems much more likely that the husbands refuse to allow their wives to get prep out of spite. The implication of infidelity angle does not feel plausible. Otherwise the men are setting themselves up for a lose:lose scenario regardless of what the wife does.
        opprobium 2y ago
        "the men are forced to confront the fact..." No they aren't, they simply never confront it. People go to their graves denying that they have HIV, denying that they ever tested positive, denying that a positive HIV test has anything to do with illness. "Otherwise the men are setting themselves up for a lose:lose scenario regardless of what the wife does." - Of course. I mean, the most rational win:win thing to do is to get an HIV test and get treated if positive. They then both don't get sick and die and can't pass along HIV. Many people don't do that either. What's the mindset that explains this behavior? You can't work backwards from the most rational thing to do to what people actually do.
        jncfhnb 2y ago
        You are the one injecting this narrative about women cheating though. It seems to me you’re just making this up. It doesn’t make sense. Establishing the narrative that if my wife gets HIV that she must be cheating on me is a losing proposition for the man that only increases the probability that his wife will appear to be cheating. There is no motivation for it. Simply being a dick and saying women can’t use prep because I don’t want them to is a much simpler narrative. Your reasoning here is similar to arguing they’re a stupid people ergo they don’t use prep because of aliens. It’s not compelling even if you’re willing to believe they may engage in irrational behavior.
- wityl 2y ago
  Because the partner doesn't test for HIV and/or is in denial that they have it or that it will affect them. These are cultural contexts where the woman has no right to question any of this.
  - jncfhnb 2y ago
    Well that’s a stupid answer but it seems consistent and feasible I guess.

So that their partner doesn’t think they are cheating.

by ttul 2y ago

So that their partner doesn’t think they are cheating.

jncfhnb 2y ago

Why would it imply they are cheating and not simply protecting themselves from their partner’s HIV?

ttul 2y ago
We are used to a western perspective on marriage, where the playing field is generally level between partners. In Africa, there is often a huge power imbalance between men and women in marriage. A woman particularly might want to keep her prescription status a secret because it suggests that she might be cheating on her husband. Even though it may seem obvious to us in the west that taking medication to avoid contracting HIV from our spouse is an obvious and reasonable thing to do, in Africa, it would be more culturally acceptable for the wife to remain vulnerable to contracting HIV from her husband because that would also infer that she is not sneaking around having sex with other men. Source: Was born in South Africa.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  Why would the woman getting HIV imply she cannot be cheating on her husband?
  - opprobium 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - cubefox 2y ago
      > From the perspective of the husband, the woman taking prep implies she is cheating. But that only makes sense if the husband thinks his wife doesn't believe he has HIV.
      - vlovich123 2y ago
        >> You're digging for a logical explanation for a fundamentally illogical cultural problem and you aren't going to get it. > But that only makes sense if Reread and if you’re still not getting it, keep rereading your parent’s line that I highlighted for you.
        jncfhnb 2y ago
        Quoting this line is not a blanket pass to say whatever you want about a culture credibly.
        vlovich123 2y ago
        Well, you have an anecdote from someone claiming to be from SA saying that’s culturally the perception. Here’s a summary of research [1] on the topic concluding similar reasons (among others): > Several participants felt that they could stop taking PrEP when the need, as they saw it, had passed. Often this was to do with the nature of their current relationship, for example with a person regarded as unfaithful: “If I find someone that I will be in a relationship with and if he is not faithful, or I have started being unfaithful, then I will come back and get them.” And > On the basis of these findings, the authors suggest that take-up and continued use of PrEP is likely to remain subject to established social norms. These norms often relate to gender and they determine, for example, who decides what HIV prevention methods to use, and the extent to which a woman in a relationship might – or might not – be able to make and implement such choices. Just because something seems logical to you, doesn’t mean that social norms and pressures don’t superseded it. In fact, we even see it in our own cultural with people believing vaccines cause autism, the whole belief that ivermectin cures COVID-19, or flat earthers. What’s really impressive though is you having such a problem with this idea despite overwhelming objective evidence to the contrary being available online and people telling you their lived experience on this very website and you significantly discount the very real possibility that people can be illogical in their strongly held beliefs even if it seems nonsensical to you. If you know nothing about a subject, you’re likely to believe what all your peers tell you which is how misinformation gets a foothold. This misinformation can even come from nowhere. The point is that if enough people believe it, they can get others to believe it to. That’s literally how human belief systems work where beliefs spring out of nothing. [1] https://www.aidsmap.com/news/sep-2020/why-do-people-southern-africa-stop-taking-prep https://www.aidsmap.com/news/sep-2020/why-do-people-southern...
    - jncfhnb 2y ago
      No, that doesn’t make sense. And writing it off as an illogical cultural problem is just lazy. I’ll believe these guys are assholes. I don’t believe they’re just consistently idiots. If the men refused to acknowledge that they had HIV and refused to allow their wives to get prep, then the logical consequence is that the wife gets HIV and the men are forced to confront the fact that either the husbands themselves have HIV or the wife is cheating and got it from someone else. It seems much more likely that the husbands refuse to allow their wives to get prep out of spite. The implication of infidelity angle does not feel plausible. Otherwise the men are setting themselves up for a lose:lose scenario regardless of what the wife does.
      - opprobium 2y ago
        "the men are forced to confront the fact..." No they aren't, they simply never confront it. People go to their graves denying that they have HIV, denying that they ever tested positive, denying that a positive HIV test has anything to do with illness. "Otherwise the men are setting themselves up for a lose:lose scenario regardless of what the wife does." - Of course. I mean, the most rational win:win thing to do is to get an HIV test and get treated if positive. They then both don't get sick and die and can't pass along HIV. Many people don't do that either. What's the mindset that explains this behavior? You can't work backwards from the most rational thing to do to what people actually do.
        jncfhnb 2y ago
        You are the one injecting this narrative about women cheating though. It seems to me you’re just making this up. It doesn’t make sense. Establishing the narrative that if my wife gets HIV that she must be cheating on me is a losing proposition for the man that only increases the probability that his wife will appear to be cheating. There is no motivation for it. Simply being a dick and saying women can’t use prep because I don’t want them to is a much simpler narrative. Your reasoning here is similar to arguing they’re a stupid people ergo they don’t use prep because of aliens. It’s not compelling even if you’re willing to believe they may engage in irrational behavior.
wityl 2y ago
Because the partner doesn't test for HIV and/or is in denial that they have it or that it will affect them. These are cultural contexts where the woman has no right to question any of this.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  Well that’s a stupid answer but it seems consistent and feasible I guess.