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> Is being bored of people talking a sign of lack of control or a lack of interest? Being bored is a sign of lack of interest- being unable to focus anyways wh

by _yb2s 2y ago

> Is being bored of people talking a sign of lack of control or a lack of interest? Being bored is a sign of lack of interest- being unable to focus anyways when it is boring but critically important, and you are choosing to try to focus on it but still can't would be a sign of ADHD. I hope this specific example illustrates what I mean about executive control, and answers your previous question as well. However, that is what connects the symptoms of ADHD- they are the most debilitating real world consequences or symptoms of a developmental delay in executive control. There are things other than ADHD that can permanently or temporarily inhibit executive control such as streptococcal infections and sleep deprivation, and cause a nearly identical list of symptoms. > I think the ADHD diagnosis can be harmful in that it makes people attribute all their behaviors to "Adhd" and makes them believe they are incapable of being changed. This is absolute nonsense, it's like saying that getting an X-ray is harmful, because if people know their leg is broken, it might make them think they can't walk on it like normal. ADHD is highly treatable, and there is now a huge community of people with books, podcasts, etc. that share practical tips that work for people with ADHD- when regular productivity tips typically don't. Personally, I was undiagnosed as a child and constantly abused and called a lazy slacker by adults for not doing what I was supposed to- I desperately wanted to, and couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. I tried every productivity trick and study hack in dozens of books, and nothing worked at all, and I didn't understand why. As an adult, I have learned about practical tricks from other people with ADHD, as well as medication that let me finally focus on the things I choose to focus on. It transformed my life from being a living hell, to being a successful person with a good life. The ADHD diagnosis allowed me to understand why the things I was doing to change weren't working, and realize I wasn't the only person trying to fix this on my own, but there are proven strategies. The reality of ADHD can much more serious, and different than most people think, or the name implies. People with untreated ADHD have substantially shorter lifespans, have a huge number of other physical and mental health complications, and have a much lower quality of life. Yes, many people have mild versions of executive control challenges from time to time- and things like addictions and loss of sleep can cause them to be worse for anyone. However, it is a matter of degree, for people with ADHD these symptoms are much more severe and debilitating. For example, take the losing your keys thing... sure a lot of people lose their keys sometimes. I have a family member with ADHD living in a cold climate where she had to wear gloves to get to school, and she loses a pair of gloves everyday. It got to the point where she was spending so much on gloves that it was having a huge impact on her life. She was trying all types of strategies to not lose the gloves, yet none were working and she would still lose them. Most people, if they lose a pair of gloves, would then be able to pay extra attention, and not lose another pair the very next day.

andoando 2y ago
Look, I've had the same experiences since I was a child and everything I am saying believe it or not in a way is the beliefs I've developed thinking about my issues (a coping mechanism even). >Being bored is a sign of lack of interest- being unable to focus anyways when it is boring but critically important, and you are choosing to try to focus on it but still can't would be a sign of ADHD. I mean do you know how many people have trouble doing something like exercising despite realizing how important it is? People fail to execute control in this area and others like it despite it being literally life threatening. Boredom, lack of interest, stimulation, focus, arousal are all related. One cannot expect someone to be focused for hours, every day on something one has no interest in, despite its seeming importance to an outside party, especially in regards to children. How do you expect a child to understand the importance of sitting quietly in class for 8 hours a day then going home and doing homework for a reward 20-25 years down the line that they can't comprehend? You're told it's important, but there is nothing within, nothing at the present or near future, that is enjoyable, fulfilling, in accomplishing these goals. Things are made far worse for example, if you as a child have social anxiety, and hate the school environment, and you drain most of your mental energy on just navigating socially, and come home hating your life. Speaking of my experiences, truth is there is much I loved to do, could focus on for hours, and sure as shit could have excelled at. I loved reading history books on my own for example, walking around in circles and thinking about god and evolution, and writing bonkers political essays as kid. I loved video games, trouble shooting things, and making things which is how I got into programming. And absolutely none of my interests were reflected in school, which is the SOLE criteria where any outside person (and in turn, me) would judge me, my ability to focus on "what's important". And in turn all these interests largely faded away, having no backing or relevance to my real world, and all I was left with is feeling inadequate, useless, and angry as soon as I thought about the "important" things I had to do. I still realized I knew I had to them yes, so I did the bare minimum the last minute, and it worked, so I kept doing the same. I've come to see that as a perfectly rational, functional thing to do. Now if I can't focus on something "important" like my job, I think "fuck it, it really is boring, let me see if there's something more interesting", and yay, it works. There is a whole another class of kids which I don't imagine are reflected in the ADHD diagnosis, those that just said "fuck this" early on, didn't even care to try, and became troublemakers. What I'd consider "critically important" executive function is things like are you able to run out your house in a fire, can you drive a car and turn left when you have to, not can you devote 8-10 hours of your life for 20 years to something you intrinsically don't want to do. All this aside, your or my feelings about how difficult it was in relation to other people mean nothing. My criticism is, scientifically, how do you measure any of this, how do you even know what the baseline is? How do you factor things like how much someone actually wants to do something, anxiety, anger, risk tolerance, addictions etc that all come into effect when a person makes a decision to sit down and do work? How do you control for person's interests vs their environmental needs? >This is absolute nonsense, it's like saying that getting an X-ray is harmful, because if people know their leg is broken, it might make them think they can't walk on it like normal. Not a fan of analogies. You can recognize your defects without the label of adhd. Most of what you've said is the benefits of stimulants, a sense of community, and a sense of acceptance. An adhd diagnosis helps with all these of course as they're locked in behind the diagnosis. I didn't say it's not helpful, I said it can be harmful in some ways, or at least, I don't think its the most ideal solution.

by _yb2s 2y ago

andoando 2y ago

Look, I've had the same experiences since I was a child and everything I am saying believe it or not in a way is the beliefs I've developed thinking about my issues (a coping mechanism even). >Being bored is a sign of lack of interest- being unable to focus anyways when it is boring but critically important, and you are choosing to try to focus on it but still can't would be a sign of ADHD. I mean do you know how many people have trouble doing something like exercising despite realizing how important it is? People fail to execute control in this area and others like it despite it being literally life threatening. Boredom, lack of interest, stimulation, focus, arousal are all related. One cannot expect someone to be focused for hours, every day on something one has no interest in, despite its seeming importance to an outside party, especially in regards to children. How do you expect a child to understand the importance of sitting quietly in class for 8 hours a day then going home and doing homework for a reward 20-25 years down the line that they can't comprehend? You're told it's important, but there is nothing within, nothing at the present or near future, that is enjoyable, fulfilling, in accomplishing these goals. Things are made far worse for example, if you as a child have social anxiety, and hate the school environment, and you drain most of your mental energy on just navigating socially, and come home hating your life. Speaking of my experiences, truth is there is much I loved to do, could focus on for hours, and sure as shit could have excelled at. I loved reading history books on my own for example, walking around in circles and thinking about god and evolution, and writing bonkers political essays as kid. I loved video games, trouble shooting things, and making things which is how I got into programming. And absolutely none of my interests were reflected in school, which is the SOLE criteria where any outside person (and in turn, me) would judge me, my ability to focus on "what's important". And in turn all these interests largely faded away, having no backing or relevance to my real world, and all I was left with is feeling inadequate, useless, and angry as soon as I thought about the "important" things I had to do. I still realized I knew I had to them yes, so I did the bare minimum the last minute, and it worked, so I kept doing the same. I've come to see that as a perfectly rational, functional thing to do. Now if I can't focus on something "important" like my job, I think "fuck it, it really is boring, let me see if there's something more interesting", and yay, it works. There is a whole another class of kids which I don't imagine are reflected in the ADHD diagnosis, those that just said "fuck this" early on, didn't even care to try, and became troublemakers. What I'd consider "critically important" executive function is things like are you able to run out your house in a fire, can you drive a car and turn left when you have to, not can you devote 8-10 hours of your life for 20 years to something you intrinsically don't want to do. All this aside, your or my feelings about how difficult it was in relation to other people mean nothing. My criticism is, scientifically, how do you measure any of this, how do you even know what the baseline is? How do you factor things like how much someone actually wants to do something, anxiety, anger, risk tolerance, addictions etc that all come into effect when a person makes a decision to sit down and do work? How do you control for person's interests vs their environmental needs? >This is absolute nonsense, it's like saying that getting an X-ray is harmful, because if people know their leg is broken, it might make them think they can't walk on it like normal. Not a fan of analogies. You can recognize your defects without the label of adhd. Most of what you've said is the benefits of stimulants, a sense of community, and a sense of acceptance. An adhd diagnosis helps with all these of course as they're locked in behind the diagnosis. I didn't say it's not helpful, I said it can be harmful in some ways, or at least, I don't think its the most ideal solution.