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Youth activists win 'unprecedented' climate settlement in Hawaii

16 points by racional 2y ago

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JumpCrisscross 2y ago
Complaint: https://earthjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/1_2022-6-1_complaint-summons.pdf https://earthjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/1_2022-6-1_compl... Settlement: https://earthjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/495-2024-6-20-joint-stipulation-and-order-re-settlement.pdf https://earthjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/495-2024... Went in to poke holes. But this looks legit.
SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
> Environmental law experts said that the youth climate lawsuit strategy, which has been ongoing since 2011, has faced an uphill battle in many states. Oh interesting.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > an uphill battle in many states Their litigation would seem to depend on Art. XI § 9 of the Constition of the State of Hawaii, which holds: “Each person has the right to a clean and healthful environment, as defined by laws relating to environmental quality, including control of pollution and conservation, protection and enhancement of natural resources. Any person may enforce this right against any party, public or private, through appropriate legal proceedings, subject to reasonable limitations and regulation as provided by law.” https://lrb.hawaii.gov/constitution/#articlexi https://lrb.hawaii.gov/constitution/#articlexi
  - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
    Cool. Now prove that a hardline unrealistic zero emissions by 2045 won’t lead to a worse environmental. Because I think lack of food, lack of trucks for maintenance, lack of locally produced clean water, and lack of tourism will result in negative outcomes. I am an automotive EE, we’re designing trucks now for 32-34 model year release, spoiler, they’re gas and diesel.
    - silverquiet 2y ago
      It really does seem like an impossible predicament, doesn't it? Our current practices will destroy us, but so will ceasing them. It makes it pretty hard to hold back the nihilism.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > prove that a hardline unrealistic zero emissions by 2045 won’t lead to a worse environmental One, not how the law works. But also, not how debate works? Prove that not doing this won’t lead to worse outcomes. You can’t. It’s in the future. > lack of food, lack of trucks for maintenance, lack of locally produced clean water, and lack of tourism How does this result from zero emissions? The food is grown there or imported. Onshore aquifers can be pumped with electricity, like they are already. (Worst case, import.) And not sure how this hits tourism, either. > am an automotive EE, we’re designing trucks now for 32-34 model year release, spoiler, they’re gas and diesel Of course. Nobody is phasing out gas/diesel trucks in the 2030s on the mainland. But this is about Hawaii. Phasing out fossil fuels—of which they make none—makes sense on multiple levels.
      - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
        > Phasing out fossil fuels—of which they make none—makes sense on multiple levels. You should’ve led with this. Saved me the rest of the reading.
wccrawford 2y ago
It says it's "enforceable", but that seems to be limited to "start another lawsuit", and I can't see any actual penalties for failure, other than what some future judge comes up with? If any.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > that seems to be limited to "start another lawsuit" Based on what? The court that approved the settlement reserves continuing jurisdiction over it through 2045 (or the achievement of the goal).
antiquark 2y ago
Many of those inter-island flights are on Boeing 717s. Will they have an electric replacement by 2045?
xyst 2y ago
If only the rest of the US DOTs can get on board. The path of “widen highways” is often the go-to for all of the states. Near zero consideration for alternative transportation methods.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > only the rest of the US DOTs can get on board This settlement appears highly dependent on Art. XI § 9 of the Hawaii Constitution, referenced in another comment [1]. The story of how such strong wording made it into their Constitution, way back in 1978, must be interesting. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40749804 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40749804

16 points by racional 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

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deleted 2y ago
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JumpCrisscross 2y ago

Complaint: https://earthjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/1_2022-6-1_complaint-summons.pdf https://earthjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/1_2022-6-1_compl... Settlement: https://earthjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/495-2024-6-20-joint-stipulation-and-order-re-settlement.pdf https://earthjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/495-2024... Went in to poke holes. But this looks legit.

SV_BubbleTime 2y ago

> Environmental law experts said that the youth climate lawsuit strategy, which has been ongoing since 2011, has faced an uphill battle in many states. Oh interesting.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> an uphill battle in many states Their litigation would seem to depend on Art. XI § 9 of the Constition of the State of Hawaii, which holds: “Each person has the right to a clean and healthful environment, as defined by laws relating to environmental quality, including control of pollution and conservation, protection and enhancement of natural resources. Any person may enforce this right against any party, public or private, through appropriate legal proceedings, subject to reasonable limitations and regulation as provided by law.” https://lrb.hawaii.gov/constitution/#articlexi https://lrb.hawaii.gov/constitution/#articlexi
- SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
  Cool. Now prove that a hardline unrealistic zero emissions by 2045 won’t lead to a worse environmental. Because I think lack of food, lack of trucks for maintenance, lack of locally produced clean water, and lack of tourism will result in negative outcomes. I am an automotive EE, we’re designing trucks now for 32-34 model year release, spoiler, they’re gas and diesel.
  - silverquiet 2y ago
    It really does seem like an impossible predicament, doesn't it? Our current practices will destroy us, but so will ceasing them. It makes it pretty hard to hold back the nihilism.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > prove that a hardline unrealistic zero emissions by 2045 won’t lead to a worse environmental One, not how the law works. But also, not how debate works? Prove that not doing this won’t lead to worse outcomes. You can’t. It’s in the future. > lack of food, lack of trucks for maintenance, lack of locally produced clean water, and lack of tourism How does this result from zero emissions? The food is grown there or imported. Onshore aquifers can be pumped with electricity, like they are already. (Worst case, import.) And not sure how this hits tourism, either. > am an automotive EE, we’re designing trucks now for 32-34 model year release, spoiler, they’re gas and diesel Of course. Nobody is phasing out gas/diesel trucks in the 2030s on the mainland. But this is about Hawaii. Phasing out fossil fuels—of which they make none—makes sense on multiple levels.
    - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
      > Phasing out fossil fuels—of which they make none—makes sense on multiple levels. You should’ve led with this. Saved me the rest of the reading.

wccrawford 2y ago

It says it's "enforceable", but that seems to be limited to "start another lawsuit", and I can't see any actual penalties for failure, other than what some future judge comes up with? If any.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> that seems to be limited to "start another lawsuit" Based on what? The court that approved the settlement reserves continuing jurisdiction over it through 2045 (or the achievement of the goal).

antiquark 2y ago

Many of those inter-island flights are on Boeing 717s. Will they have an electric replacement by 2045?

xyst 2y ago

If only the rest of the US DOTs can get on board. The path of “widen highways” is often the go-to for all of the states. Near zero consideration for alternative transportation methods.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> only the rest of the US DOTs can get on board This settlement appears highly dependent on Art. XI § 9 of the Hawaii Constitution, referenced in another comment [1]. The story of how such strong wording made it into their Constitution, way back in 1978, must be interesting. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40749804 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40749804