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I don’t know what or who you think you’re arguing against, but it ain’t me. First your response to “the non-human environment is an astoundingly efficient circ

I don’t know what or who you think you’re arguing against, but it ain’t me. First your response to “the non-human environment is an astoundingly efficient circular system” was “nuh uh, nature makes things that smell bad and are ugly too!” Now your response to “nature doesn’t produce refuse of the same type or scale as humans” (clearly referring to the massive amounts of obscenely stable and probably-toxic-to-most-creatures plastic that we produce) is “MALARIA EXISTS, rich guy!” Take a breath. Try to find where I said “nature works on smaller scales than humans.” When you find a line that looks similar but says something quite different, get curious about that difference! That’s where you’ll find what I’m actually saying.

lazide 2y ago
Same to you, apparently. Edit: oh, but you had to change your comment completely once you actually read things. What a ridiculous person. Swamps naturally breed malaria, among other diseases, similar to how dumps breed Rats. Swamps are where rivers and the like end up washing all the detritus. Malaria (estimated) has killed more humans than any other cause. Living anywhere near a swamp is the natural equivalent of living near a dump burning tires constantly, but provably more lethal than the dump. Without massive effort to control the vector anyway. Swamps are as natural as it gets. How many hundreds of thousands of people are killed by plastic waste in dumps per year again? Zero? Except for maybe some rando who chokes on something? And again, that is without discussing natural arsenic and uranium water contamination. Oh, and I forgot about Radon [https://images.app.goo.gl/frMD3KoKXdssTgtM9 https://images.app.goo.gl/frMD3KoKXdssTgtM9]. We get worked up about human hazards because humans ‘should know better’, and are at least nominally within our control. Nature just DGAF, and works at scales we can barely comprehend most of the time. And is often completely outside of our control. So apparently some people seem to think the hazards don’t exist or aren’t clearly far worse in many cases? After all, how much man made radioactive gas do you need to check if you are breathing in at home? And yes, all of this is very pertinent to the ‘kumbaya nature is self sustaining and all loving and takes care of everything’ comment. Nature is, of that there is no question, at least. The rest is up for debate/interpretation. I love nature - but let’s not pretend it can be pretty stabby sometimes.
- deleted 2y ago
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- titzer 2y ago
  Worldwide ocean plastic kills vast quantities of marine life. It's an enormous problem that affects entire ecosystems. Malaria is a complete red herring. "you just have no idea what you’re talking about" is just plain rude. No one comes here for that, so you'll have to stop doing that to avoid being ignored.
  - lazide 2y ago
    So do red tides. Oxygen depletion zones. Population imbalances leading to mass die offs. Huge oil spills. Etc. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK220695/#:~:text=Assuming%20the%20seep%20scales%20are,to%20200%2C000%20tonnes%20per%20year https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK220695/#:~:text=Assumi...).] which we have records of for all of recorded history (and fossil records of from far before that). I’m not saying plastic is good to be dumping in the ocean. It isn’t! Oil spills are bad! Dumping massive quantities of fertilizer and making oxygen depleted zones worse is bad! I’m saying claiming that nature is always pretty and naturally balanced without massive die offs and imbalances is just ignorant. That claiming natural hazards don’t exist or aren’t often at least as or more of an hazard is ignorant. And leads to major mistakes on our side, if we think that. And I wish I could be ignored. Arguing obvious stuff like this is exhausting, but apparently it needs to be done or the BS spreads even further - and causes real problems.
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      Can you point out where anyone said “nature is always pretty and naturally balanced without massive die offs and imbalances?” Are they in the thread with us now?
      - lazide 2y ago
        You seem a little lost. This is the thread in response to the comment “You know what's awesome? The biosphere, which recycles 99.9999% of its own matter in a vast, global cooperative, driven by unending clean source of energy that is literally beamed in from space with no waste products. Chucking it all in a hole? Not even close.” Which is why mass human (and non human) deaths from natural processes related to the biosphere and it’s wastes/chemicals is pertinent. Because throwing stuff in a hole is sometimes actually a pretty good thing to do compared to many natural processes.

lazide 2y ago

Same to you, apparently. Edit: oh, but you had to change your comment completely once you actually read things. What a ridiculous person. Swamps naturally breed malaria, among other diseases, similar to how dumps breed Rats. Swamps are where rivers and the like end up washing all the detritus. Malaria (estimated) has killed more humans than any other cause. Living anywhere near a swamp is the natural equivalent of living near a dump burning tires constantly, but provably more lethal than the dump. Without massive effort to control the vector anyway. Swamps are as natural as it gets. How many hundreds of thousands of people are killed by plastic waste in dumps per year again? Zero? Except for maybe some rando who chokes on something? And again, that is without discussing natural arsenic and uranium water contamination. Oh, and I forgot about Radon [https://images.app.goo.gl/frMD3KoKXdssTgtM9 https://images.app.goo.gl/frMD3KoKXdssTgtM9]. We get worked up about human hazards because humans ‘should know better’, and are at least nominally within our control. Nature just DGAF, and works at scales we can barely comprehend most of the time. And is often completely outside of our control. So apparently some people seem to think the hazards don’t exist or aren’t clearly far worse in many cases? After all, how much man made radioactive gas do you need to check if you are breathing in at home? And yes, all of this is very pertinent to the ‘kumbaya nature is self sustaining and all loving and takes care of everything’ comment. Nature is, of that there is no question, at least. The rest is up for debate/interpretation. I love nature - but let’s not pretend it can be pretty stabby sometimes.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
titzer 2y ago
Worldwide ocean plastic kills vast quantities of marine life. It's an enormous problem that affects entire ecosystems. Malaria is a complete red herring. "you just have no idea what you’re talking about" is just plain rude. No one comes here for that, so you'll have to stop doing that to avoid being ignored.
- lazide 2y ago
  So do red tides. Oxygen depletion zones. Population imbalances leading to mass die offs. Huge oil spills. Etc. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK220695/#:~:text=Assuming%20the%20seep%20scales%20are,to%20200%2C000%20tonnes%20per%20year https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK220695/#:~:text=Assumi...).] which we have records of for all of recorded history (and fossil records of from far before that). I’m not saying plastic is good to be dumping in the ocean. It isn’t! Oil spills are bad! Dumping massive quantities of fertilizer and making oxygen depleted zones worse is bad! I’m saying claiming that nature is always pretty and naturally balanced without massive die offs and imbalances is just ignorant. That claiming natural hazards don’t exist or aren’t often at least as or more of an hazard is ignorant. And leads to major mistakes on our side, if we think that. And I wish I could be ignored. Arguing obvious stuff like this is exhausting, but apparently it needs to be done or the BS spreads even further - and causes real problems.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    Can you point out where anyone said “nature is always pretty and naturally balanced without massive die offs and imbalances?” Are they in the thread with us now?
    - lazide 2y ago
      You seem a little lost. This is the thread in response to the comment “You know what's awesome? The biosphere, which recycles 99.9999% of its own matter in a vast, global cooperative, driven by unending clean source of energy that is literally beamed in from space with no waste products. Chucking it all in a hole? Not even close.” Which is why mass human (and non human) deaths from natural processes related to the biosphere and it’s wastes/chemicals is pertinent. Because throwing stuff in a hole is sometimes actually a pretty good thing to do compared to many natural processes.